Huh? Where did you get that from what she says? Just another case of you twisting someone else’s words beyond recognition to make your own, only semi-related, point. Clearly Kathy thought she and Todd were dating. Perhaps this was stupid of her. I happen to think it was, since any guy who pressures you for sex is an asshole, period. However, it was reasonable of her to believe that they were dating, in a relationship, whatever. From her description, it was not at all a given that he would fuck her and dump her. It was not, in her mind, a one night stand. Thus, when he did it, she was surprised, and I can easily see how that would have led to at least a few attempts at contact from her, beginning with casual, to worried, to frantic, to severely pissed off. I think she kept at it far longer than he warranted, but she’s obviously an inexperienced and rather moronic girl, so there you go.
Todd is the person who behaved with malice and callousness, which Kathy was unable to foresee. Thus, I think it’s safe to say that Todd bears more of the responsibility for this situation getting ugly. Not 100%, but definitely more. Kathy, I hope, will show much better taste and more discretion in the future.
Interesting direction this thread has taken. It says right on the top “Did this guy deserve the article,” and here we are arguing about whether the girl was stupid for not expecting the guy to treat her the way he did.
What’s with all these tangential references to her being stupid for, basically, believing what he said? What does that have to do with anything?
Chessic Sense started this thread defending the guy’s actions, which are not defensible, and now the main issue is what’s wrong with the girl? That’s… typical of the kind of guy in the story, but kind of infuriating here.
She’s not stupid for believing what he said. What was stupid is shamelessly chasing after a guy who is clearly an irredeemable douchebag. Like I said, I could see her trying a few times to get in touch with him, but after a short period of time, you realize that you been had, and you walk away, cursing his name and telling all your friends he’s an asshole. I don’t admire people who debase themselves by chasing after someone who is clearly not interested in them nor worth the effort.
However, her naivete and foolishness are by far eclipsed by the fact that Todd is a complete asshole who behaved abominably. I don’t see how Kathy could have foreseen just what a bastard he would turn out to be.
OK, so it’s kind of irrelevant whether she acted like a naif about the whole thing, right?
You don’t admire her, which is, you know, something. But it seems to me that that’s beside the point. I’m trying to figure out whether those who are talking about her part in the little tragedy are doing so because they really don’t think the guy was in the wrong, or because it was OK for him to be in the wrong in a way that it wasn’t OK for her to be foolish, or what. The ratio of, I don’t know, collateral attack that’s going on is confusing.
Thread topics do change, you know, both because the OP’s focus may be less interesting than a tangential topic, or the OP is simply disconnected from the consensus and the argumentative “center” swings wildly away. Just ask the guy who started a thread about Malaysian affirmative action and ends up with a debate about whether African dominance in Olympic sprinting is statistically significant.
I think it’s irrelevant to the question of whether or not Todd is a douchebag, yes. However, it’s not irrelevant as a topic of conversation in this thread because the OP does refer to her as a tease and some other unflattering things as a way of explaining or mitigating Todd’s assholishness, so her character is also in question in this thread.
OK, yes. Obviously threads sometimes move from one topic to another. That is true. And it has happened here.
So why is it so much more interesting to talk about a woman being clingy after sex than to talk about whether or not it’s fucked up behavior to pressure a woman into sex, then literally get up and walk out of her life leaving her pregnant?
Rubystreak, I understand, and I wasn’t really talking about posts like yours that said she was dumb and he was a jerk. I’m talking about the posts by Diogenes, mswas and Chessic Sense that seem at best to elide that latter part as if that part wasn’t worth discussing (and in the case of the OP, refute the latter entirely). Like I said, it’s not so much the acknowledgment that she made mistakes that bugs me, it’s the implication that her mistakes were the real source of the controversy.
I don’t think it really IS worth discussing. I don’t think he really did anything all that wrong. He paid for his half of the abortion, and that’s all she was really entitled to. I don’t understand what anyone thinks he was supposed to do. Was he supposed to stay with her forever? Is it against the law not to call a chick after you bang her now? WTF?
My knee usually jerks in defense of women against asshole males, but this one doesn’t deserve it. She wasn’t a victim of anything but her own stupidity. I always say that a guy should be prepared to become a father every time he has sex, but I also think that a woman should understand that a guy having sex with her doesn’t mean he loves her or cares about her or will ever call her again. That’s a risk that grownups take. This chick was especially stupid. She said she dumped her high school boyfriend who did care about her because she decided he wasn’t worthy of losing her virginity to, but then she decides that some smirking tool at a frat party is the man of her dreams, she strings him along for a few dates, during which time he’s making it absolutely clear that he’s primarily after sex. Then after she finally sleeps with him, she’s shocked that he doesn’t call her again. welcome to LIFE, lady. No guy is obligated to stay with you just because you slept with him.
No one would feel sorry for a guy who got dumped like this. How about a little equality. Why shouldn’t women be responsible for their own sexual decisions? That’s a very paternalistic attitude, in my opinion. It’s not like he actually took anything from her. She’s just whining because he turned out not to be in love with her. So what? Tough titty. Move on. It happens to everybody. It’s not a justification to be a stalker. If the genders were reversed, people would be telling the girl to get a restraining order.
I’m also not sure I buy that she was pregnant. It’s not impossible that she was lying about that, and that she just took his money and pocketed it, and said she got an abortion.
We should remember that we’re getting a very one-sided and self-serving story here.
Well, that is just about a ton of bullshit. Anyone who manipulates a naive person, uses them, and then treats them cruelly would garner my compassion. What you meant to say is that YOU wouldn’t feel sorry for a guy who got dumped this way, since you can only speak for yourself. You certainly don’t speak for me.
She is responsible for her decisions. She had an abortion, didn’t she? It’s not wrong for her to want a guy who says he cares about her not to be a liar who just fucks her and dumps her. His behavior was assholish in the extreme. It was indefensible, yet there you are, defending him. As Jimmy Chitwood pointed out, her naivete does not exonerate him for being a titanic prick.
If someday this happens to your daughter and she calls you up crying, I hope that you will say exactly these words to her. Otherwise, you’re a hypocrite. Make sure you include this part too:
Yeah, she wanted him to stay with her forever. Excluded middle. How about not dumping her the day he took her virginity, in the most cowardly way possible, not taking her calls? Indefensible.
It’s not wrong to want it. It’s just stupid to expect it from some tool at a frat party.
I guess I don’t really understand what he did to her other than dump her. It’s not like he raped her or anything.
My daughters would never be that stupid, and they sure as hell are going to know about birth control. If they call me up whining that some guy dumped them, I’m going to tell them to join the club and move on.
I don’t see why having sex with somebody obligates them to stay with you. It wasn’t liked she was even being dumped from any kind of real, established relationship. It was a guy she went on a couple of dates with. She did worse to the guy from high school.
Check out the last paragraph of the blog post. She admitted that it was stupid not to use any birth control.
I find it almost incomprehensible how someone can be so careful to plan out “I’ll let this guy have my virginity at this particular point in time” but yet somehow not think about using birth control. Especially when she should have learned something from seeing unplanned pregnancy happen to her high school friends.
Todd was already drunk by the time he knew it was going to happen, so it’s hard to blame him for that part of things.
Besides, I bet his response to her pregnancy probably would have been more diplomatic if he didn’t have good reason to think she was making up the pregnancy just to try to get a reaction from him.
If a girl is crazy enough to keep trying to call and message a guy who has made it clear that he doesn’t want to talk to her anymore, it is not that much of a leap to think she might be crazy enough to pretend to be pregnant with his baby just to force him to answer her.
I can picture him getting increasingly annoyed at her every time another unwanted text message pops up, and then when he gets the “I’m pregnant!” message, thinking, “Okay, now you’ve gone too far” and not even considering that it might be true.
Especially since most college kids who are afraid of pregnancy would likely be in a bit of denial at first about it anyway!
Do you have compassion for me for getting maniupulated and ripped iff by seedy, fake weed dealers selling me oregano joints at bus stops? I lost money on that deal. She lost nothing but a bad boyfriend.
I guess you didn’t read the actual article and just made a bunch of assumptions. She was dating him, and he reassured her that the really did care about her. You make it sound like a one night stand with some drunk guy at a frat party. Truth is, they did have an ongoing relationship that she had every reason to think would continue after the sex. IF she was stupid to think so, then every woman who has sex with a man for the first time if she’s not married to him is similarly stupid.
Because you didn’t read the story, I guess. He lied to her, claimed that he cared about her. Then he dumped her by ignoring her calls, nary a word to her, which is cowardly and lame in the extreme. When she told him she was pregnant, he accused her of having sex with a bunch of men when he knew damn well she was a virgin. So, yes, lots more than just dumping her. Her only mistakes AFAICT is that she didn’t realize he was a dick before she had sex with him (haven’t we all been there?), and that she persisted in trying to talk to him after he made it clear that he was in fact a huge dick.
“My daughters would never be that stupid.” Hilarious, but idiotic, response. You have no idea what will happen to your daughters when they enter the adult world of sex, rife with men who will do anything to get it, including wooing and deceiving your precious daughters, then treating them like crap. You HOPE they will never be that stupid, but they very well might. You are also assuming that no birth control was used, but there is no evidence either way. Todd says he did not come inside her, which could mean they used a condom that failed. But I’m sure your daughters could NEVER EVER be in this situation. Yeah, keep telling yourself that. If your daughters do call on this topic, I hope your wife answers the phone.
Please, do show me where anyone in this thread suggested that Todd had to stay with her. She was, in fact, being dumped from a real, established relationship. Probably not established enough, I agree, and probably more established in her mind than in Todd’s, but he did give her the impression that he wanted to be with her, not just for sex. He lied, then dumped her in a shitty way, then essentially called her a whore. He was cruel and manipulative. This is not a man you want to defend, Dio. I cannot for the life of me understand why you are, and are being deliberately obtuse about the situation to boot.
No, she did not do worse to her high school boyfriend. Why was she obligated to stay with him, or have sex with him? She dumped him, which according to you is an absolute, non-negotiable right, for which one need have no reason whatsoever. She did nothing wrong to her high school boyfriend-- she simply changed her mind about having sex with him, her prerogative, and broke up with him. She didn’t use him, call him names, or callously deceive him for personal gain.
I guess Kathy didn’t use birth control, in the sense that they used a condom or she was on the pill. That was pretty damn stupid. I suspect they used the “pull out and pray” method, which is a form of birth control albeit a shitty one, since Todd said he didn’t come inside her. Usually, that actually works, but not always. But then again, I don’t think anyone is arguing that Kathy wasn’t stupid. Even stupid people deserve to be treated with decency.
Yeah, and when will mothers take their sons to virginity balls? And when will a woman who proclaims she won’t have sex until marriage be considered either a loser or a homosexual?
Well, first we have to reverse engineer sexual evolution.
Gee whiz, she has sex with a guy without any kind of serious commitment, then complains because he doesn’t act committed. Dumb attracts asshole, and vice versa.
Robert Louis Stevenson said there were two kinds of people who paid for it in the end - fools and knaves. But the fools pay first.
These two deserve each other, and therefore are well rid of each other.
They have sex.
They don’t speak to each other anymore. She’s upset about that and keeps contacting him. He doesn’t even tell her he’s not interested anymore. Then…
“I’m pregnant.”
“Why are you telling me?”
followed by:
Yeah, no, he’s not an asshole at all. The most reasonable thing to conclude here is that she made up being pregnant, first of all, and second of all, that her main problem here is that he isn’t acting like they’re getting married. She’s a virgin, the guy gets her pregnant, he refuses to ever talk to her again, she lets him know that he made another human person inside of her, he calls her stupid, insane, and a desperate slut. Where’s the issue? What did she expect, marriage? The only possible things a guy could ever be obliged to give a girl are 1. nothing and 2. a lifetime of monogamy, after all!
I don’t understand why people keep saying that he dumped her. That implies an action was taken. He did nothing but ignore her. He saw someone naive and weak (minded), and acted cowardly, and predatory. He took what he wanted under false pretenses.
If he wanted want to sleep with someone casually, fine. But don’t lambast the girl by claiming that she’s too stupid to understand the cold shoulder, when he himself was too ignorant to understand that if she was a holding out virgin, maybe she wasn’t expecting it to be a one time thing.
Man up, get his sex elsewhere, man up, and have the conversation of ‘I was too drunk and didn’t mean to sleep with you’. (and that’s being generous to him)
He seems to me that he wanted his hymen trophy, and the ability to brag about it. That’s not really adult behavior is it? It is contradictory to claim ‘well, we’re all adults here and able to have casual sex’, and then turn around and condone acting like 15 a year old jock.