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One thing I’d love for you to do in addition is to figure out how society is going to deal with the students who get left out of an education if we abolish public education. How much will it cost taxpayers in the long run to have to deal with the masses of morons who’ve become unproductive citizens and who most likely will prey on the productive citizens? But, I think that this is too difficult right now, and you’ve got your work cut out for you with the task I’ve already assigned.
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I never said I wanted to abolish the government school system.
However, I would like to see that happen. I’d like to see a system where the government gave parents a voucher equal to about 2/3rds of the amount it takes per student in their local government schools. That way, the government schools would not be losing any money. That way, the government schools would have to compete for that student. Being that I’m Pro Choice, I would approve of such a plan.
BTW, you write as if you believe that the only thing keeping this nation from total chaos is the government school system and the government school teachers. The government schools are a relatively new thing in this country, most kids were taught at home or in private schools until around the turn of the century. Quit giving yourself so much credit.
To consider another sector: Community college part-time instructors often teach at two, three, or even four campuses–“freeway flying”–just to make ends meet. Teaching five classes–a full-time load–may bring in less than $20,000 a year, net. So they wind up teaching even more classes. They may or may not receive benefits of any kind; it depends on the campus.
There’s a lot more to it than what I’ve said here–as I’m sure my colleague Manatee would attest–but this will do for now.
Nonsense. The public school system in the U.S. predates the 1830s. Compulsory education entered the mainstream in the 1850s. (You may get away with hedging on your statement by pointing to the large number of Catholic schools, but they were created as a response to sectarian discrimination against Catholics and functioned in most immigrant cities as a second public system.) The school systems, both urban and rural, were mostly public throughout the last 170 years or more.
And even if the public schooling did become most prevalent only 100 years ago, that pretty much coincides with the needs of an increasingly mechanized industrial work force to be able to read and follow directions beyond the sort of thing that the typical farmer could pick up by simply imitating his father, so it would seem that the public school system has kept the nation from total chaos.
Oh, yes, things were much better when history was presented as uber-patriotic never-mind-the-facts babble about the virtues of our Sinless Founding Fathers. It was a lot better when there was no mention of women, or of the violations of their rights, or those of other minority groups, It’s best not to discuss that. It makes the country look bad, and may make the kids rebellious instead of Good Little Patriots.
And goodness knows, it was so much nicer when those pesky minorities didn’t besmirch our beautiful all-white schools with their presence. Nope, there never was a problem until they came around.
Oh, how we yearn for the good-old-days when gays were rightfully fearful lest they accidently let their orientation be known. Things really went to hell in a handbasket when gay-bashing went out of vogue and that silly tolerance thing evolved.
But the biggest culprit of all is the dark evil known as * humanism. * God knows, there wouldn’t be a single problem in this country if prayer was back in schools, and Darwin was shucked in favor of Creationism. Poof! All problems gone! Our schools would be neat, orderly, quiet as church, and all of the cute little white children would be well-groomed with cleanly washed faces.
[Sarcasm off.]
You know, I’ve never done this before, in the Pit, or elsewhere, but you, sir, are one of the biggest asses I have ever had the misfortune to come across. I have seen some bigotted tripe in my time, but you take the cake.
I teach Art in an inner city school and besides the basic skills work teachers do, I think most people would appreciate the “social engineering” aspect of schooling there. Some of the highlights include:
don’t hit people
don’t insult people
do your own work and be responsible for your own actions
respect the property of others
be polite when asking someone to do something
help others in need
Not all parents teach their kids these things, and we do our best to fit them in along with the three R’s. We need to teach these things *at the very least * to keep a good environment to learn in. Hopefully, these kids will grow up and continue to follow these rules.
As far as the diversity issue, we have a gay student union, a black student union, a service learning organization etc. No faculty member started any of these clubs, the students did. Also, these organizations cost zero tax payer dollars-- they sell candy and organize fundraisers. I’d be interested to know how students showing such motivation and initiative would compromise any other student’s classroom experience.
What comments from the shep proudfoots of the world also betray is a thorough indulgence in nostalgia.
The sad reality is that most American education, in most of our history, has been utterly inadequate. What is different is that we are much more aware of our inadequacies, in no small part because we can measure them. How many transnational educational studies were performed in the supposedly halcyon days of the 1950s, when much of the country subjected minorities (and not just blacks) to separate, and highly unequal, educations? And many of the nations against whom we now compete were still recovering from war (Italy, Japan) or had yet to modernize (Korea, Singapore)?
And there’s another factor, too. To the extent we did have pockets of excellence, they were possible in no small part because women lacked labor alternatives. Until recently, many systems paid higher salaries the older the students became: reflecting the bias that the more an activity resembles child care, the less it deserves to be paid, since after all mothers are unpaid. I saw this first-hand in Japan, which socially tends to be about a generation behind the West - or at least it was in 1988-91. The teachers I assisted were, in many cases, utterly brilliant. Why were they in teaching, which paid no better in Japan than here? Partly because it’s generally respected, but also partly because it was one of only two or three professionas considered proper for married women. (Nursing, of course, was the other big one.)
We are stuck now in a terrible conundrum. Because teaching was traditionally badly paid (which it could afford better when women lacked choices), teachers ultimately joined unions. Unions tend to stifle creativity and often protect the worst performers more than the best. And because of that, no one’s serious about treating teachers like professionals, or paying them like professionals.
Sometimes I think that vouchers might be a good thing if only because they might force some realizations. But the cost to a generation of students would probably be enormous.
The recepient of a private school education, I can say, without a doubt, that I’d be much better off had I attended public school. My education, if you want to call it that, was laughable. (The school was religious in nature and the focus was strongly on indoctrination rather than academics.)
Not all private schools are superior to public ones. My problem with vouchers is that some very religious parents who cannot currently afford to would take the opprotunity afforded by a voucher and send their child to such a school at the expense of their education.
Vouchers may also lead to a new kind of segregation, with white children avoiding schools which are heavily populated by minorities, and vice versa. As a person who believes that diversity has a lot to contribute to education, I think this would be very detrimental.
A lot of people wouldn’t be able to take advantage of voucher programs anyway, due to living in rural areas where only one school is nearby. Secondly, some parents would have problems with transportation, and it’s unrealistic to expect school busses to travel long distances to pick up students. Thirdly, uniforms might be out of financial reach of some parents, which would eliminate the possibility of attending many private schools.
I went to a Catholic school, I got a decent education.
HOWEVER…they did not have the resources for students with learning disabilities, other than sending me to a guidance counselor to talk about my “feelings.” Yeah, that’s great but um, I’m failling math here, and the teacher makes fun of me in front of the other students. Great.