Occasionally you see these guys on TV, people that learn how to manipulate ‘chi’ so that they can perform certain amazing acts. I admit, I’m in awe at some of them, but they leave me wondering which are totally fake, which are actually cases of the audience being ignorant to a simple principal and which truely defy common knowledge.
I’ve seen these two men that place the ends of an iron rod on their necks and push toward each other, causing the rod to bend downward without damaging their necks. I figure the rod is pretty blunt at the ends but still, how do you suppose they keep their necks from bruising and swelling their air passage shut?
There’s this one old man who puts molten lead on his tongue and holds it there for about a minute. The lead is billed as being 900 degrees F but I figure that’s exaggerated. Still, when he spits it out it melts a hole through a sheet of copper. The only explanation I can think of is that perhaps his saliva forms a shield, but how could it last that long without evaporating and burning his tongue to nothing? I believe this is the same theory applied to firewalkers, experts say it’s the sweat that shields the walkers from burning but wouldn’t the water stream away pretty quickly?
Then there’s the doctor/healer that rubs his hands and ‘extends his chi’ from his hands creating detectable heat that he uses to ease pain. I saw him on Ripley’s but I never got his name, I wanted to know if anybody else studied his feat, since Ripley’s is probably willing to do anything to wow its audience. Funny enough, I tried looking through several episode guides of Ripley’s Believe It or Not, detailed ones, all those episodes I searched and I didn’t see him mentioned in one description. Anybody suppose he’s the real deal? Have you ever seen him on another show and/or know his name?
Iron rod: How do you know it’s an iron rod? How do you know whether anything has been done to make it more easily bent? That being said, the human body is really pretty tough. (On a similar note, I once saw a demo where a guy shattered a piece of metal by whacking it on his forehead. Of course, if you temper steel the right way, it’ll shatter if you look at cross-eyed.)
Molten lead: Erm…isn’t the melting point of copper significantly higher than that of lead? So I’d be suspicious about this demo. That being said, the saliva would form a shield for some time. And another factor in the firewalker thing is the relative density of the human foot vs. coals.
Detectable heat: Increased blood flow should yield a feeling of increased heat. To an extent, heat buildup from friction may also play a role.
I guess I don’t know for sure that it was an iron rod, just going by what the announcers said. They could definately be lying or the rod could be tampered with. I know the human body is pretty tough, but the neck seems like a pretty vunerable place, even if the rod was plastic. In self defense classes, that’s one of the main areas you’re supposed to strike an attacker.
Hmmm, I always thought copper had a relatively low melting point, then again I don’t know much about lead. The copper plate was probably there for that reason, to show just how hot the lead was. Back in chemistry class, we used to spray water on hot plates to watch it steam, but sometimes waterdroplets would form tiny planes of steam underneath themselves and they’ve glide along as it slowly vaporized away. I wonder what conditions are needed to make water do that? I wonder if a lasting steam shield could be made from saliva. Is it possible that the lead might take away enough surface area that the moisture can’t escape quickly?
About the doctor, I neglected to mention something. It wasn’t a case of his hands getting warm and touching the patient or heat detecting instrument. He ‘extended’ the heat from his hands over several feet onto a certain area.
This is the result of the Leidenfrost effect. Basically, the drop of molten lead is kept above the surface of the tongue by a layer of steam. This is the same principle which allows so-called firewalkers to step across red-hot coals. I can do this too.
Iron Bars: was this done with the bar on the back side of the neck or the throat side? Since you say they bent the bars “down”, I’m assuming the back side (plus I’ve seen strongmen do this trick that way). The neck muscles and vertebrae are pretty good at resisting steady force. I’d be willing to bet your self defense class had you target the throat, which is much more vulnerable. Depending on the quality of the steel and the lever arm (how far away the rod’s end is from the point on the neck) this is achievable without having to depend on extra-physical effects.
Lead: I see QED already brought of the Leidenfrost effect, saving me the trouble of trying to remember what the heck that was called. Although I’d probably be more impressed visually with the finger in lead trick.
Heat: I could’ve swore I saw something similar to this mentioned on randi.org, but I can’t find it. That case involved monks using meditation to expand their skin capalliaries, raising their radiated body heat. An impressive display of autonomic control, but nothing unexplainable. Now the claim of “extending the heat” over several feet is starting to set off my Bogometer*. Do you remember how it was detected? If it raised the measurement of a thermometer, I’d be wary of behind the scenes shenanigans. If the warmth was reported by a test subject, it might just be the power of suggestion.
The human body itself can do some pretty impressive things, although some require training. But unless “chi” was being described as anything other than a mental/physical state, there’s going to be a simpler explanation. As a wise man once said “There’s no mystical energy field controlling my destiny. It’s all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.”
*Device for measuring the how bogus a statement is. Calibrated so that one Bogon = “the check is in the mail”. 10 Bogons = 1 Balony.
Here’s a list I found of various metals’ melting points. Lead melts at 620F, copper at 1980F, so I doubt the Plumbic Loogy melted through a copper plate. Although a thin enough sheet of copper might get pliable enough so that it couldn’t support the weight.
You stuck your finger in a pot of solder? :eek: Gah, it burned pretty good the few times I’ve managed to splash drops of solder on my hands, though not nearly as much as actually touching the pencil.
About the neck and rod thing: people’s necks can apparently be toughened up quite a bit. There was this show on Discovery, I think it was called ‘more than human’ where they talked about the practicioners of this one martial art in Ohio ( or some place like that). The host of the show attacked this guy in various painfull places; the guy didn’t flinch, even from a kick to the nuts, and a knife hand to the adam’s apple. ( either of which would likely floor me, being totally honest). The guy was unaffected even when blindfolded.
Also, on the wall of my old dojang was a picture of the brother of my teacher with a spike driven through the skin on the front of his neck being used to hold up 2 full buckets of water. That I can’t see not hurting. ( there’s also a picture of him holding up the same two buckets with a spike driven through his arm, and my teacher holding one wheel of a compact car with his stomach)
I think you’re talking about Juko Kai - it was on TLC’s “Top 10 martial arts” from a couple years back. It’s actually not so much about getting tough as it is learning subtle tricks in order to take certain kinds of shots… usually thrown in a certain way under controled conditions. Looks to be more for demo than practical use. I can show you how to take a kick to the nuts in about 30 seconds and you could perform the same feat… Hint - you hold your legs a certain way so that your inner thighs take the kick - the family jewels don’t get hit at all; and naturally this will only work when the kick is sweeping up, as opposed to say me jabbing you in the nuts with a broom handle :D.
Bending metal rods or spears with your neck? All I can say is that any iron rod or spear that would fold in half under the few dozen pounds of force a human could put on it by leaning isn’t as robust as we usually consider them. Consider the length vs x-section of these demo rods too. Not hard to bend 5 feet of 1/2" aluminum pipe. Try doing the same with 6 inches.
These people do have specific knowledge and know what they’re doing in these demos, but they are quite normal physically.
Yep. The key is to suck on it first, to make sure it’s good and wet all over. I never left in there more than maybe 1/10th of a second. I didn’t want to find out how long was too long! This was SN100 solder, incidentally.
True. And you must also keep in mind that they are essentually one trick ponies according to an article I read once. One is trained to bend steel rods, another how to balance on the fingertips (which I have seen live. It was quite impressing) etc.
Does this have a lower melting point than 60/40? That is all I ever used in the airforce, and I tended to run my pencil a bit high (unless working on diodes or ICs)to make big soldering connections go a bit faster. When doing simple wire to wire splices I liked to turn it up to 800º or so. This can save alot of time when you have a few hundred to do, as long wires tend to suck away heat, but stray solder tends to hurt.
As for the neck shots on the show, they weren’t thrown in any special way, the host of the show was untrained ( though that would make them easier to withstand), and the recipient of the blows was blindfolded, but now I can’t remember whether or not the host was allowed to hit anywhere, or was told to hit one spot or the other. The name ‘judo kai’ sounds correct though.
Spectre and psiekier, glad you liked it. That phrase was explicitly chosen because I’ve never had a “band name!” reply to any of my posts.
I’m a little worried about how much time I spent trying to figure out how to spell “Loogy”, too. I’m not even sure if that’s right, I’m thinking there should be a ‘u’ in there somewhere.
Hehehe, if you want to see what a real hit to the neck will do, take a look at some of the current kickboxers and muay thai fighters. When they throw a high kick (to the head), the target is usually the side of the neck. Some land there, others hit the head it’s self, and lots are blocked. But most people who get hit by a clean kick on the neck drop to the ground. Granted these are really powerful neck shots by trained pros, but still I’d like to see a Juko Kai guy demo his technique by taking oneofthese in the neck… this is usually the result.
Also keep in mind that the whole point of a demo is to make whatever it is look impressive. I actually did some MA demos a few years back, and they aren’t improvised… they are practised for a few weeks ahead of time by the same 2 or 3 people who’ll be doing them for the show. Not to say that what they’re doing isn’t legit, but trust me, it’s been properly set up for safety and effect well in advance.
I can partially do the warm hands thing. I can make my fingers warm. You could try how I do it if you want. Focus on increasing blood flow to your fingers while imaging the tips of your fingers so hot fire is coming out of them. Great trick for in the winter and I forget my gloves.
Sorry, but I disagree with regard to fire-walking. I’ve fire-walked several times, once on TV, and have been a consultant to other people setting up firewalks. Nothing. Whatsoever. To. Do. With. Steam.
You can walk across red hot coals or red hot ashes in your bare feet, at a normal if brisk-ish walking pace, because the conductivity of the material you are walking across is not sufficiently good to get the heat to the soles of your feet quickly enough to burn them. And the skin on the soles of the feet is thicker than anywhere else on the body. That is all there is to it. Nothing whatsoever to do with steam, nor with positive thinking or mental energy or any of that crap (regardless of what misleading souls like Tony Robbins say).
That having been said, please, Dopers, do not go out and try it yourself. You should only try fire-walking under the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing, has done it before, can prepare the fire trench correctly, can implement the proper safety conditions and can advise properly on the correct way to walk across.
As for these other demonstrations referred to in the OP - I’ve performed most of them and I’m not a Qi Gong master. Some of these stunts are for real (what they say is happening is really happening) but anyone can do them if shown the right technique, and some of them involve various kinds of subterfuge and things not being quite what they seem. I am not going to provide any further detail, but if you can find a good magic shop you might be able to track down an old booklet by a man called Derek Lever which lists all these feats and how to do them.
All I can tell you, for sure, is that these feats have nothing to do with special or weird forms of energy or mental training or superhuman faculties or superhuman strength or meditation or days spent in prayer on top of a mountain… that’s all irrelevant window-dressing but good for whipping up a crowd and/or interest in your special course on enlightenment.
Ianzin, who has walked on fire, held flames on my fingertips, hammered nails into my head, eaten broken glass, caused things to burst spontaneously into fire just by staring at them (?), stuck my hands into animal traps, stuck spikes through my tongue, and undergone root canal surgery without anaesthetic. Hey, a man’s gotta earn a living, right?
