Maybe at your magic Whole Foods. Have you ever heard it referred to as “Whole Paycheck”?
I just looked at my bottle of ICA (swedish supermarket) own-brand shower gel. Second ingredient by weight (after water) - Sodium Laureth Sulfate. While it’s possible greenliving.com may be using a somewhat generous definition of “Europe” or “banned” (e.g., not allowed in baby food), my guess is less-than-rigorous research on their part. I’m not a huge fan of the stuff by any means but since it is the major ingredient in probably 99+% of shower gel sold in the world, banning it would be Big News.
Less exposure to environmental chemicals/toxins is a great thing, but unfortunately there is a massive amount of urban myth and outright wooooo around the whole subject.
What’s your opinion on the ingredients of spam?
Reported. (Coach Tyler)
I realize that this thread is quite old but since I stumbled across it today I felt the need to respond. I was invited to an Ava Anderson party today and had never heard of it before. I looked at their website and started doing a few searches on them before deciding if I might be interested in going when I came across this thread. I’ve never tried any Ava Anderson products before so I don’t have much to say about them. I’ve used makeup, scrapbook supplies, and any number of products from varying MLM structured companies. It’s not my favorite model, and I do think it’s overpriced to get the ‘discount’ and people signed up but just because a company uses that model does not make it a scheme or a bad thing. I’m neutral. I also don’t know what is or isn’t banned in Europe. I’m in Texas. I just wanted to say that first.
With regards to whether or not it’s fear mongering and scare tactics being employed to sell these products… Maybe but that doesn’t make what they’re saying necessarily untrue. Once upon a time people blew off those people complaining about the dangers of cigarette smoke too. It was allowed everywhere. Sitting at your desk and in doctor’s office waiting rooms. Now it’s not even allowed in most bars (at least not where I live in Houston, Texas).
I have personal experience with the toxic effects of chemicals. My mother smoked all through her pregnancy with me yet I had a pretty healthy childhood. Some might say that’s because the cigarettes aren’t that dangerous. Some might not. By 27 years old I’d had two miscarriages and had kidney cancer requiring the removal of a kidney (and gallbladder the year before). In 2009, I gave birth to premature twins, one of which is autistic and has severe eczema. The other shows signs of so labeled ADHD but we don’t know as yet. By 30 I was diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease and Fibromyalgia in addition to a body that can’t absorb Vitamin D or folic acid very well. By 33 I was diagnosed with migraines, cluster headaches, and adult-onset asthma (often triggered by fragrances). I am/was a girly girl that likes her smell good pretty things, candles burning, yummy shampoos like Herbal Essence and Garnier, fresh smelling laundry, and perfume on date night. I have dogs and a husband. Febreeze was my friend. Lol
I was always a little sensitive to some perfumes but usually attributed it to something else, like maybe they put too much on. I’d never made a connection between being sick and my chronic illnesses. Last year I started getting really sick. I was getting more migraines, having more asthma attacks, and got dizzy and nauseated by my own clothes. We finally figured out that when we removed chemicals and synthetic fragrances from my area I felt better. We got air purifiers for the house (makes a good fart detector too so it’s pretty entertaining), and went fragrance free. I was shocked by what I learned when I really dug down into the true nature of the chemicals we expose ourselves to. I’d literally been poisoning myself.
There IS scientific evidence backing up many of the claims but it’s early research. It took a lot of years for cigarettes to become known as carcinogenic too. The worst of the chemicals are hidden in the term ‘fragrance’ or ‘parfum’. That one word can contain over 300 individual ingredients and is in almost every product we use. The CDC passed a fragrance free policy in 2009 for all staff and employees recognizing the growing problem with chemicals being used. I’ll post some helpful links at the bottom but I just had to add my two cents. My clothes don’t make me sick anymore but most other people’s clothes do.
Regarding the cost difference… I would imagine synthetic chemicals are much cheaper to produce. A simple example would be the smell of roses. Fake smells are easy and unlimited when made with chemicals. To get the real smell of roses an oil has to be produced using several tons of a limited material. Organic makes it cost even more. There are good products out there and more coming on the market everyday. Reducing your exposure to toxins does not have to break the bank. EWG/skindeep is a good starting point. I like some products by Aveeno (fragrance Free of course), I tolerate and like many by NaturOli, and Ava Anderson has a good enough rating on the EWG for me to consider trying a few of their products. We use free & clear products where we can find them. Scented with EO’s in a healthy and not overwhelming combination is sometimes okay too. We use plain old cheap vinegar for fabric softener and it works fabulous. Clothes come out smelling like fresh and clean is supposed to. Blissful nothing. 
We haven’t found a good ‘deodorant’ but we found an excellent alternative that is cheap AND husband/teenage boy tested… Good ole Milk of Magnesia in a spray bottle. Yep.
In no particular order:
https://depts.washington.edu/soundcit/data/forget-the-fragrance/
Not So Sexy | Environmental Working Group and the full report: http://www.ewg.org/sites/default/files/report/SafeCosmetics_FragranceRpt.pdf
http://www.pdx.edu/hr/fragrance-free-value-statement
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/ART00576
http://www2.epa.gov/saferchoice/safer-choice-criteria-fragrance-free-products
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/11/27/toxic-perfume-chemicals.aspx
http://www.womenforahealthyenvironment.org/pages/fragrance-free-at-home
https://www.laborlawcenter.com/blog/news/new-ada-guidelines-for-fragrance-sensitivity/
http://www.everettsd.org/silverlake
So are they possibly using scare tactics? Yep.
Is it ‘really’ scary? Yep.
The CDC’s fragrance free policy has nothing to do with health risks, as your own link makes clear. It is because the CDC considers fragrance inappropriate for the workplace and because it may aggravate preexisting health conditions in other employees.
I don’t think your Galileo gambit re cigarettes is very convincing either.
You READ that?
My hat is off to you, sir!
Interesting that our thread reviver is totally new to Ava Anderson but is already recycling their pitch and has churned out a huge Gish Gallop to impress us.
Whenever the Toxin Threat gets hauled out, I think it’s incumbent on the Toxin Shouters to show that 1) the product(s) they’re warning us about have any ingredients shown to be toxic, 2) that those ingredients are present in amounts sufficient to cause harm, 3) that whatever treatment or competing product they’re hawking can reverse damage/improve health, and 4) that the treatment or competing product is “toxin”-free and does not cause health problems of its own.
“Science wuz wrong before!” is not a convincing argument. Woo has been wrong far, far more often. You’ve got to prove your own case on its (alleged) merits.
I’m especially :dubious: about the formaldehyde-in-shampoo argument, as it smacks of the “vaccines contain formaldehyde!” nonsense we hear from antivaxers. Your own body makes formaldehyde (in small amounts, of course) as a part of normal metabolism. As long as you’re alive, you can’t avoid exposure to the stuff, however “all-natural” you go.
“Formaldehyde plays an essential role in our metabolism. As part of the metabolic process, formaldehyde, whether from an external source or produced by our bodies, is converted into formate (PDF) by the enzyme formaldehyde dehydrogenase. The resulting formate can then be eliminated in the urine, further broken down into CO2 and exhaled, or used by our cell machinery to synthesize nucleotides and nucleobases, such as purines and thymidine…
Even before the advent of industrial uses of formaldehyde, humans, as with every other animal on Earth, had been exposed to formaldehyde through the foods they ate, the environments in which they lived and their own metabolic processes. They developed the means to use the chemical for their own cellular function, as well as the ability to get rid of excess amounts that would otherwise be toxic.”
For all “toxins”, the dose makes the poison. Show me that my shampoo is actually poisonous and that your MLM crap is better, don’t just yammer about “toxins” and expect to impress me.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Yes, but not for the lulz. I handle a few occupational exposure cases, so I’d read it before.
And, the thing about science is that it’s self-correcting. Once upon a time, it never occurred to us that inhaling smoke could cause health problems, so no one checked. Now, on the other hand, we’ve LEARNED. And now we actually CHECK for those kinds of health risks. It’s not like we’re still shoveling untested products out there and just hoping for the best. We’ve come a long, long way.
Whenever someone starts hand-wringing about the vague dangers of vague “chemicals” and “toxins”, I like to point out that if alcohol were held to the same safety standards as pesticides, the limit would be roughly one glass of wine…per YEAR. So unless you’re completely teetotal, your position is completely untenable.
Re: IVF maybe we notice because reproductive medicine has a lot more options now, and because people are a lot more open about these personal issues than they used to be?
I’ve come across this post through googling Ava Anderson, after finding it on an app that I use called Think Dirty. Their BB cream came up with a green rank. I have never heard of this company - I live in the UK.
I developed psoriasis about 4 years ago - a condition where your skin apparently renews itself quicker than normal, resulting in dry rough patches of flaky skin - similar to eczema. I saw the NHS 3 times in the UK (they prescribed topical steroid), and eventually saw a specialist in South Africa (also prescribed topical steroid) - over a course of about 18 months. My Dad advised me against used steroids liberally.
During this time, I did a huge amount of reading about the condition, spoke to friends etc - realised I had a friend who had the same thing, my Dad (a Dr.) had the same thing and my brother in law had a similar thing.
MY experience and thoughts are they over the course of the past 3 years: After cutting out various foods (following the Pagano diet - didn’t work), I slowly eliminated as many chemicals as I am aware of out of my life. I’ve slowly educated myself with regards to the number of chemicals that we are exposed to. I read a book called Green Beauty - I recommend reading it, its unbiased and reasonably science-based. I fact check with my Dad, who tells me what is rubbish an what isn’t. He thought Dr Pagano Diet sounded rubbish from the outset but I tried it anyway. My Mom says that at home, they use specific washing powder for ultra sensitive skin, and the most bland products they can find, etc. My Dad told me to do the same.
I’ve changed washing powder (to Ecover), household detergents (to Ecover) , and personal products (mostly Dr Bronner; I don’t wear make up anymore) I have about 10% of the psoriasis spots that I used to. They covered about 30% of my back, and much of my scalp for that 18 month period. A couple of friends who I lived with at the time who were appalled at Dr Pagano’s stipulation that I give up wine, have helped me research this whole concept and also moved towards a greener product set; have said that they feel like their skin and general health has improved immeasurably.
My point - I really really believe there is value to be derived from being more aware of what we put in our bodies.
Its known that it goes into remission - reduces or disappears totally - even without the doctors pharmaceuticals. There’s a better chance with the doctors prescriptions…
The Ava Anderson claim is based upon fear tactics…
“be scared of chemicals”… because humans are not allergic to food products ?
Her number one claim is that a fragrance added to a product is most likely containing phthalates.
No that is not so. Phthalates are used in perfumes and colognes to help stick the smelly ingredient and stop it evaporating away too quick.
This “stop it evaporating away” aspect is not needed in any cosmetic product. In fact they want the perfume to evaporate away quickly, as otherwise it could make the cosmetic is too overbearing… perfume in the eye ? Tasting roses all day ?
I’ve also had this problem (with food left in the back of the refrigerator).
I don’t know a damn thing about it, but I have this feeling that eventually this thread will die again, only to be resurrected by some new age anti-reality pseudo-intellectual who was sucked into the program and removed of several dollars.
I note that three times this was resurrected by pro AA people, it is their only post. This indicates to me a systemically organized and planned effort. Its as if part of their ‘training’ is to search message boards for “Ava Anderson” and post there… Its like ‘Scientology’
Moderator Action
They can’t keep reviving it if I close the thread.
Thread closed.