Question about Bach, 2nd Brandenburg.

Cafe Society
1

I don’t know if I’m stupid or not, but I guess I’m pretty unobservant. I think.

One of my favorite piece of music (hell, I told my daughter that it was a “towering achievement of Western Civilization” so I guess I like it a lot) is the 2nd Brandenburg, especially the 3rd movement (yeah, I’m a walking cliche. So sue me).

So I’m listening to the concerto again this morning, and I realize: Dammit, this thing is a fugue! :smack: I’ve only been familiar with the piece for, oh, maybe 15 years or more. :rolleyes:

Then I listen further with the fugue idea in mind: Well, maybe not.

But I don’t know/remember enough about music structure to say for sure. It’s definitely polyphonic, but since we’re talking about Bach here, that’s akin to saying “that water is definitely wet.” :wink:

So… is it a fugue?

2

[QUOTE=JohnT]
I don’t know if I’m stupid or not, but I guess I’m pretty unobservant. I think.

One of my favorite piece of music (hell, I told my daughter that it was a “towering achievement of Western Civilization” so I guess I like it a lot) is the 2nd Brandenburg, especially the 3rd movement (yeah, I’m a walking cliche. So sue me).

So I’m listening to the concerto again this morning, and I realize: Dammit, this thing is a fugue! :smack: I’ve only been familiar with the piece for, oh, maybe 15 years or more. :rolleyes:

Then I listen further with the fugue idea in mind: Well, maybe not.

But I don’t know/remember enough about music structure to say for sure. It’s definitely polyphonic, but since we’re talking about Bach here, that’s akin to saying “that water is definitely wet.” :wink:

So… is it a fugue?
[/QUOTE]

Yep. It sure is. Here it is for those who want to hear it.

Keep in mind that some fugues are more strict in their structure than others. The strictest fugue structure would have the initial subject entries follow each other immediately one right after the other. In this case there are the first 2 entries (trumpet, oboe) and then some more material before the 3rd and 4th entries (violin, flute) and maybe that’s what’s throwing you, I dunno.

In any case, after this section comes the sequential section (approx. 0:40 - 0:50) followed by an entry from the trumpet, some more stuff, then an entry from the (smokin’ hot!) violin player, some modulating material, an oboe entry in a minor key, so on and so forth.

But definitely a fugue, and definitely a Bach one at that.

3

[QUOTE=Moe]
Keep in mind that some fugues are more strict in their structure than others. The strictest fugue structure would have the initial subject entries follow each other immediately one right after the other. In this case there are the first 2 entries (trumpet, oboe) and then some more material before the 3rd and 4th entries (violin, flute) and maybe that’s what’s throwing you, I dunno…
[/QUOTE]

Actually, it’s very common to use a “codetta” in the exposition - that’s the extra material you refer to between the end of the “Answer” (2nd statement of the Subject) and the 3rd and 4th.

Since the Subject is in the Tonic (F major in this case) and the Answer is in the dominant* (C major) the fugue is starting to drift around the circle of fifths, so the codetta resets things harmonically so the 3rd statement is back in F again.

*in many fugues the Answer may not start in the dominant, but it will get there soon

4

[QUOTE=K364]
Actually, it’s very common to use a “codetta” in the exposition - that’s the extra material you refer to between the end of the “Answer” (2nd statement of the Subject) and the 3rd and 4th.

Since the Subject is in the Tonic (F major in this case) and the Answer is in the dominant* (C major) the fugue is starting to drift around the circle of fifths, so the codetta resets things harmonically so the 3rd statement is back in F again.

*in many fugues the Answer may not start in the dominant, but it will get there soon
[/QUOTE]

Indeed, listening to it again, that’s exactly what’s going on. Thanks for the assist.

5

I’ve never ***not ***thought of it as a fugue. You’ve raised some interesting questions, but yup, it’s a fugue.

I’m listening to it right now, and wow, it’s one of the greats.

6

Yes, fugue. A bit looser in structure than many of his other fugues, perhaps (e.g. the aforementioned lengthy episode between 2nd and 3rd entries).

Bach wrote some good fugues.

7

[QUOTE=Moe]
Yep. It sure is. Here it is for those who want to hear it.

Keep in mind that some fugues are more strict in their structure than others. The strictest fugue structure would have the initial subject entries follow each other immediately one right after the other. In this case there are the first 2 entries (trumpet, oboe) and then some more material before the 3rd and 4th entries (violin, flute) and maybe that’s what’s throwing you, I dunno.

In any case, after this section comes the sequential section (approx. 0:40 - 0:50) followed by an entry from the trumpet, some more stuff, then an entry from the (smokin’ hot!) violin player, some modulating material, an oboe entry in a minor key, so on and so forth.

But definitely a fugue, and definitely a Bach one at that.
[/QUOTE]

What’s “throwing me” is a couple of things:

  1. “Music Appreciation 101” was about 18 years ago.
  2. The Bach fugues that I have the most exposure to are his organ works, especially those of E Power Biggs (link to my favorite album). There the fugal arrangements are far more obvious. It also helps that they’re called “fugues”. :wink:

Appreciate the responses, everybody!

8

Even though wasn’t a fan, I always think of William F. Buckley when I hear that section. It was the theme music for his TV show for many years.