By many accounts, Steve Jobs was a Buddhist (maybe even devout), but he was also a rude asshole to people around him.
Somehow, by the little I know of Buddhism (e.g. don’t feel attached to material things or the material world) I fail to see how that is compatible with (a) Feeling strongly enough about material things to be upset at people and (b) Expressing your upsetness by being extremeley rude and demeaning towards them.
So, if any Dopers are familiar with Buddhism, can you explain if those two aspects of Jobs are compatible, or he was a Buddhist only for show, or he was simply a flawed Buddhist?
If someone claimed to be a devout Christian and was also a raging asshole, I would doubt how good of a Christian they were.
Same with Buddhism, but since I’m not that familiar with Buddhism I wanted to get input from people who were, in case assholishness is compatible with being a devout Buddhist.
As I tell my husband when I fail to live up the teachings of the Buddha - “I am a Buddhist, not the Buddha.” Just because you are following the path does not make you perfect or change your personality. Englightenment is rare. You can think of it this way if you are used to the Christian teaching, how many people of the Christian faith always follow the teachngs of Christ? Do they all turn the other check or treat others as they would be treated? No of couse not. Some try to more than others. Buddha taught us the path to follow, it is hard and takes time. It is not magic.
In general I agree with you that no one can meet/follow the demands of their religion all the time, since no one is perfect. But there is a difference between now and then straying (by e.g. stating a lie) and having a constant personal flaw that does not diminish with time (e.g. being rude and very demeaning towards people and humiliating them).
The former (the once-in-a-while straying) can be consistent with someone who is at least trying to follow the tenants of their religion. The latter (the all-the-time and does-not-diminish-with-time behavior) to me is not consistent with someone who is earnestly trying to follow the tenants of their religion.
The only way someone behaves a certain way all the time and continues to do so for years and years is that either (a) they are not earnest in being the religion they claim to be or (c) they think that their religion allows the behavior they are exhibiting
Very good points.
Many people have a sincere but shallow understanding of a path or teaching. They want to but just don’t get it, in other words. Many people call themselves Christian or Muslim or whatever but very few of them practice the teachings of that faith.
If your ego is not in check you may think that your opinion and your outbursts at others are necessary. You may not have really understood that the Buddha said there is no personal self. No YOU to defend, love or hate, or be the winner over others. A hard one for me as well to truly understand and make part of my life.
" Buddhism stands unique in the history of human thought in denying the existence of a Soul, Self or Atman. According to the teaching of the Buddha, the idea of self in and imaginary, false belief which has no corresponding reality. and it produces harmful thought of “me” and “mine”, selfish desire, craving, attachemnt. hatred, ill-will, conceit, pride, egoism, and other defilements, impurites and problems.In short to this false view can be traced all the evil in the world." Walpola Rahula
Well, the Eightfold Path includes “right speech”, “right action”, and “right livelihood” - i.e., a responsibility to speak, act, and make one’s living in an ethical and upright manner. Compassion is a major part of Buddhism; Quan Yin/Avalokiteśvara/Kanon etc. is the Bodhisattva of Compassion and a very important figure in a variety of Buddhist traditions.
So no, detachment from the material is not supposed to make you an asshole in Buddhism.
Consider how nasty Steve Jobs could have been without Buddhism.
Seriously, with Job’s raging type A personality he might not have succeeded without something to calm him a bit.
He was originally fired from Apple because he was such a tyrant. The second time around Steve was still very demanding, but not totally out of control. People could work with him and get things done.
Take a look at the history of Burma, around 1963. Buddhist fundamentalists (!) seized control, and instituted laws banning pesticides (leading to famine due to depletion of food stores from vermin) and banning leather-working (putting the Muslim minority into an economic depression, and many of them were leather-workers.)
Chicken Fingers has it right: assholism is nonsectarian. In any large sample of people, no matter how idealistic their formal religion or philosophy, a minority of jackasses will become evident…and more than proportionately harmful.
I’ve been reading about Buddhism. I don’t know much about it, though. One thing that strikes me is that if you are bent a certain way, it could make you can take on a fatalistic/nihilistic/self-centered view of the world.
In Christianity, there is a lot of emphasis placed on soul and your “bigness” in terms of the spiritual universe. God has a personal relationship with you. He’s watching you. You can beseech him for help and guidance. There’s a plan for you. If you’re good, you will be rewarded. If you have faith, you will be rewarded.
There isn’t anything like this in Buddhism. You can be good all day long, but crap will still be heaped on your head. The challenge isn’t being good (although being good is supposed to help you on your journey towards understanding the Truth). The challenge is enduring and then enjoying the crap on your head. Perhaps Steve Jobs was attracted to Buddhism for just this reason. Seems to me he had a very anal, self-depriving disposition, so this kind of makes sense. But for him, there was a trade-off. He could endure like the most devoted monk, but it came at the expense of compassion. Some people can balance both, but Steve couldn’t.
