And just how much weight do any of those pledges hold? Any penalties or repercussions for breaking it?
One supposes that the RNC could, were they so inclined, withhold such support ascthe RNC usually provides candidates in future election campaigns.
One also supposes that primary opponents in future contests could use such pledge-breaking as evidence that they should not receive whatever nomination they might be seeking.
Sorry I got snippy with you, adaher. It is just that my question is germane to the OP. If Trump is elected POTUS, and part of the reason for that is that conservatives believe that Democrats and liberals have been utilizing hate to divide Americans for decades, I’d like to be able to at least get some kind of a bead on that idea with the help of a specific example. I have never come across this concept till now. Starving Artist came across as pretty confident that he had observed this phenomenon, and so I am most interested in his description of it. Don’t take this the wrong way, but in this particular instance, I almost don’t care about your speculations about his ideas, and would desperately hate to see this thread derailed into a conversation in that direction. But of course it is your right to respond to any post in any thread as you see fit, within the rules enforced by the mods. Of course. But when president Trump declares that all liberals are to be rounded up into concentration camps, my suffering will be lessened by at least hearing the reason from the horse’s mouth, not yours.
Sorry, but I’ve somehow overlooked your pleadings on this matter. Please allow me to, uh…elucidate:
Examples of it abound. Here on this board, on college campuses, in magazines, in daytime and late night TV talk shows, in the mainstream media, from the mouths of most Democrat politicians…just about anywhere people with a liberal or pro-Democrat mindset congregate or find themselves with a voice. Why try to limit it to some specific politico or radio personality?
Conservatives and Republicans in each of these arenas are consistently accused of being haters over things that have nothing to do with hate, we’re called racists over things that aren’t racist, we’re called misogynists over things that have nothing to do with hatred or disdain from women (remember the left railing about our “War On Women”, which in reality was nothing more than thinking people should pay for their own birth control.
Democrats and lefties have been using these tactics constantly since the late sixties and it’s only gotten worse the more that time has gone by. It’s become so common and pervasive now that many young people who grow up hearing it swallow it hook, line and sinker without even giving it any thought.
But I’ve got news for you:
Objecting to illegal immigration does not equal hatred of Hispanics as people. Nor is it xenophobia.
Objecting to the U.S. throwing its doors open to Muslim immigrants when various terrorist organizations have made clear their intentions to infiltrate their ranks is likewise not racism, nor is it xenophobia. It’s common sense.
Condemning the violent and misogynistic lyrics of rap music does not equal racism.
Gun ownership is not due to bloodlust or hate, but to hear liberals tell it gun owners just can’t wait till someone tries to attack them or break into their homes so they can break out their pocket cannon and plug 'em.
Believing people should buy their own birth control is not remotely misogyny, nor is it any kind of “War On Women”.
The wealthy are portrayed as greedy and evil and the poor as noble and downtrodden. The accomplishments of the successful are handwaved away as the result of privilege, despite the fact that even among the so-called privileged they are a rarity.
The rich getting richer has no bearing on the poor getting poorer…to the extent they even do. People earn according to their worth in the employment marketplace. You will not take home one dollar more were every billionaire in the country go broke, and you’ll not take home any less because they earn more this year. Yet we’re subjected to this bromide constantly as a way of making it seem once again that the successful don’t deserve their success and only achieve it at the expense of the noble and downtrodden poor.
Etc., etc., etc. I could easily list a hundred other dishonest and ridiculous ways the left demonizes the right and works to divide the nation, but you get the idea.
Further, any objection to liberal ideas, viewpoints, social efforts and programs are usually portrayed as some form of evil as well. Never, ever is there the slightest hint that perhaps the two sides simply have different ideas about how to solve problems, or that conservatives have every bit as much right to their point of view as do liberals. But no, it’s my way or the highway when it comes to the left. You’re either with 'em or you’re some kind of asshole.
It’s ridiculous, but it’s the world we live in. And as a result Trump is now polling at 35% in Reuters’ latest rolling poll, and predictably all the nation’s lefties are running around like Chicken Littles with their heads cut off and wailing about the next coming of Hitler, all because Trump wants a moratorium on Muslim immigration.
Like I said, it’s ridiculous, and it’s dishonest as hell, but that doesn’t mean it’s gonna stop, does it?
They know that, but how else are they to bring out the low income, low education, low information voters? You got to appeal to people’s fears.
Yeah, and you got to keep them down. The more that people lack the education, attitudes and employment qualities required to prosper on their own and are forced to rely on the government to get by, the more likely it is that they’ll pull the “D” lever come election time.
I’ve long suspected this is why education has gone downhill the last fifty years, why government subsidies have increased, and why anyone who dares suggest ways in which minorities and poor people can improve their lot in life and get ahead immediately get shouted down with cries of “racism” or mocked for calling poor people lazy.
The truth is, the more that people can’t hack it on their own, the more Democrat voters there are. And worse, the more they succeed and prosper the more likely it is that they’re going to start voting Republican.
So it behooves the country’s liberals and Democrat politicians to create as much resentment as possible toward those who are successful and to sympathize with and ennoble those who aren’t, and to tell them it isn’t their fault, the system is stacked against them, the rich people are soaking up all the money and the privileged are the ones getting education and good jobs, and their only prayer if they want to have a roof over their heads is to vote Democrat because Democrats care about them and are in their corner.
What is it they say…with friends like that who needs enemies?
I don’t think Democrats want to keep anyone down, so much as keep them feeling oppressed even as they rise. Keep that sense of grievance going. Once people firmly enter the middle class and feel comfortable there, their relationship with the Democratic Party tends to fray. So while Democrats would love to see people succeed, they want them to still have a chip on their shoulder about it. Notice how they go nuts when someone insults the President in a possibly racist way. If you’re a disadvantaged person even when you’re the President, requiring special protection from hurtful things said about you, then it means that no one who is a member of a disadvantaged group can ever move beyond their identity. Doesn’t matter if they are President, a Fortune 500 CEO, or a billionaire celebrity. Apparently, Joe the Plumber is the real power in this country.
Jesus merciful fuck, this post… it’s amazing…
Why else claim that if black voters don’t vote Democrat there will be more Fergusons? Not exactly appealing to hope and change there.
Good points, adaher. Perhaps it’s a combination of things we both see.
And Try2B Comprehensive, here’s another example of the very thing I was talking about in my post to you above:
No, Trump doesn’t love hate. It isn’t hatred to expect people to follow the law (illegal immigrants) and it isn’t hatred to propose a moratorium on Muslim immigrants to try to protect the country from terrorists who’ve promised to infiltrate the country by mixing in with those very Muslim immigrants, and who’ve already done so in the case of the Paris concert terrorist shootings. It’s not only foolish but stupid beyond belief to insist that we throw our borders open and allow all these people to come flooding into the country knowing damn well the whole time that Islamic terrorists are almost certainly in their midst.
I feel very sorry for the vast majority of these refugees. I’m sorry they’ve had to flee their homes and I’m sorry for the plight they face trying to find new homes. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to throw my brain out the window and ignore the huge threat that we would be willingly subjecting ourselves to by letting them flood in here unvetted. And that’s all Trump is trying to do. He isn’t trying to “ban” them; he merely wants a moritorium until we can develop ways to allow them in without making targets of ourselves. (And perhaps playing a chess game to make it harder for Obama to do so himself.)
And here are the country’s Democrats and liberals, wailing to the heavens about “Hitler” and “Fascism” and all sorts of other nonsense in their efforts to once again attempt to seize the moral high ground at the expense of Americans’ safety.
THat’s where I disagree. Trump is a very angry man, and while I don’t think he’s a racist in the classic sense, his angry message that targets certain groups draws a racist following.
That’s fine. We can disagree on certain things, there’s nothing wrong with that.
My own take, having found Trump interesting and having followed him fairly closely for twenty-five years or so, is that he’s not nearly as angry as he’s letting on. He’s very clever and very cunning and he knows how to play the game probably better than any other candidate at this point, and projecting anger is part of how he’s playing his game. It riles up and energizes his base.
I don’t take seriously much of what he says and really don’t have any idea whether he’s even sincere about wanting the White House. But everything he does is done for a reason, and that reason is rarely apparent. He’s playing some sort of game, and doing so masterfully. What the end game actually is though I couldn’t begin to say with any certainty.
But I think anyone who takes anything he says or does at face value is almost certainly missing out in terms of what he’s really up to, and that includes the anger he projects. It’s all for show and in service of a goal whose end game is something only he knows for sure.
Lets see who he was kissing up to then.
And why was it that even the Republican Senators and the Gobernor told Trump to not come to see Arapio?
Oh it is very clear; what service he is doing, and several dopers have reported already, it is clear that is giving a voice to the racists and bigots, but many on the right have to pretend that that is not important at all.
Trump’s either a bigot or someone who’s totally fine with saying bigoted things. Advocating restricting an entire religion from entering their country is bigoted. Maybe he doesn’t believe it, but that doesn’t speak any better of him. George Wallace isn’t more admirable just because he was trying to appeal to racists without believing it – explicitly trying to appeal to racists is a racist action, no matter the beliefs.
As to what Staving Artist says about what Democrats say and believe – as usual, these are the fantasy right-wing talk-radio Democrats, not real-world Democrats (except perhaps for a very, very few). I agree that these fantasy Democrats are awful and stupid, and I support their defeat. Starving Artist and I share a disdain and repudiation of these fantasy Democrats, and if they ever emerge into the real world, we will stand together and oppose them.
Turning his legacy from businessman-turned-punchline-turned-reality-star (but I repeat myself) into businessman-turned-reality-star-turned-bigot? His choice, I guess.
And of course, Starving Artist still hasn’t provided any actual examples.
And what he’s really up to is…? Or are you among those who are “almost certainly missing out in terms of what he’s really up to”?
It seems pretty clear to me that Trump just taking a joyride in the media machine to see if he can crash it into the White House. He doesn’t care whether he wins or loses, he’s just enjoying having people talking about him. The worst-case scenario for him is that he gets elected, and I doubt that’s going to happen.
I don’t vote period, but I’d support Trump over any Democrat even if he’s the least desirable of the Republicans.
Huh. I guess two wrongs can make a right after all.