:smack: totally missed the date. Too involved reading related stuff.
Interresting.
If you’re interested, here are some other Kremer diary pages where he talks about special actions:
September 5, 1942:
“Muslims” was camp slang for people who had lost the will to live.
From September 6.
September 9
The phrase ‘used as kindling’ implies that the bodies burned like wood, that they supplied the fuel for the cremation process.
This is not the only reference in the book to using bodies as fuel … from the same book …
*“The Germans stood around with satanic smiles on their faces, radiating satisfaction over their foul deeds. They drank toasts with choice liquors, ate, caroused, and enjoyed themselves around the warm fire. Thus, even after death the Jew was of some use … the heat came from the burning bodies of Jews. The German fiends stood warming themselves, drinking, eating and singing.”
*
Are these nits the best you can pick? Because of how a book described bodies burning, perhaps not using a 100% scientifically accurate phrase, that means that bodies didn’t burn? I’d say eyewitness testimony of bodies burning trumps the turn of phrase of a book. You got nothing.
These are not ‘nits’. The fact is that there are no bodies of holocaust victims. This is understandable for those killed in camps and cremated. But it takes a substantial amount of wood to cremate a body in the open air, and yet in no account of the process that I’ve seen is this issue addressed, instead as Wienik describes it, the bodies of the women are used as kindling. They are even used to create a bonfire to warm the Nazis.
Then there is the confession of Blobel. His mission is incredible in the first place, he is supposed to range all over eastern Europe finding the graves of Einstazgruppen victims and making them disappear. Then when you see his confession, that the graves were uncovered, the bodies left in place and covered with a ‘flammable material’ and then left to burn to ashes, and then the ashes and bones covered in place, the story in itself is incredible and if it were true there would be no shortage of physical evidence to prove it. Yet, there is no physical evidence of it at all.
No. That is simply your inference. It could just as easily mean that they were placed on the lowest tier of the pyre out of a mistaken impression that they would spur the fire more easily. (Do you even have the original statement in the original language? Do you know that “kindling” was the best translation of the original word to English?)
And? Are you asserting that bodies do not burn?
It is one thing to note that bones do not easily burn, (which explains the frequent references to crushing or grinding the bones after cremation), bit it is absurd to claim that human bodies will not burn, at all. Cecil has addressed this in the examination of Spontaneous Human Combustion, (which was never spontaneous, but which was successful in obliterating the corpse at relatively lower temperatures than one finds in a crematorium).
Except of course for those in the videos, and those bodies that actually were found. Oh yeah- I forgot… people who died in the camps of starvation and disease weren’t “victims” of the Holocaust. I’m sure the Nazis did their best to save their lives.
You’re just guessing about how burning bodies work- you obviously have no idea. Cremation can reduce a body to ash and tiny shards of bone- I’ve seen the remains of a cremation. You’re picking nits, guessing, and failing even in that.
And Gack is ignoring the mass graves found at Treblinka, already reference.
You have to admit he’s confident. Entirely wrong, but it’s easier to brush off those kinds of setbacks if you have confidence.
Who has looked? The Soviets were not interested in digging up “Jewish” bodies (and they already had lots of evidence of Nazi crimes) and once the Soviet bloc fell, so many years had passed that there was less interest in digging up such sites.
New sites with new evidence turn up every couple of years, or so.
Nothing has been found … from the article …
This initial survey should be viewed as a start of what will hopefully be a long-term collaboration between myself and the Treblinka museum, aimed at providing new insights into the physical evidence, and allowing the victims of the Holocaust to be appropriately commemorated.
Nothing will be found …
However, no geophysical methods will reveal conclusively what is below the soil - they do not detect human remains.
And certainly nothing will be excavated …
No excavation was carried out and the ground was not disturbed, which would be a violation of Jewish law and tradition, banning the exhumation of the dead.
Of course I’m confident. There have been references to a mountain of physical evidence, but … where is it? None has been produced or even described.
I am confident that there is no physical evidence, but don’t take my word for it, take that of renowned holocaust scholar R.J. Van Pelt, who in a rare moment of candor admitted that there is no physical evidence to prove ninety-nine percent (99%) of what we know about the holocaust …
http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2009/12/27/a_case_for_letting_nature_take_back_auschwitz.html
Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge.
I don’t think that the Holocaust is an exceptional case in that sense.
And of course there are 1000s of eyewitnesses, but the USHMM has obvious pathological liar Abraham Bobma as its featured eyewitness, and the Stephen Spielberg movie of holocaust eyewitnesses features obvious nut case Irene Zizblatt. And my challenge to examine the testimony of ANY Jewish eyewitness anyone wants to produce goes unanswered.
What’s to doubt?
Wrong. “Bones and teeth wash up in the rain…”
Human remains found in a mass grave in Romania from the Holocaust (by Romanian allies of the Nazis).
Here’s a doozy of a link: chemical evidence of attempts at dissolving bodies in lime, as well as crushed human bones found in mass graves at Chelmno; human ash as well as mostly-whole human bones at Belzec; and bones, hair, bone ash and human fat residue at Sobibor. Extensive stuff.
You fail, big time, again.
Laughably and wildly incorrect- just a few examples in my last post.
Way to avoid YOUR OWN original point.
You point out you were “confident” real bodies behave a certain way when cremated.
So where’s the proof? Where’s the evidence?
You have posters providing a mountain of evidence that bodies do indeed behave that way and nothing on your own other than “confidence”.
At the very least, try to keep up with YOUR OWN arguments, even if you can’t keep up with any others.
The Nuremberg Trials (and related trials), which were perhaps the most public trials in world history, are more than enough by themselves to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the Nazi attempts at genocide. The defendants, in general, did not even try to claim that the genocide of the Jews was not attempted (except for a few like Goring)- they just abdicated responsibility… either by claiming they were “just following orders”, or that they had nothing to do with the murders and the camps.
Of course, there were many admissions- by Rudolf Hoss, Albert Speer, Hans Frank, and Wilhelm Keitel, among others. The logical contortions one would have to fit into to deny even just the evidence in these trials are ridiculous.
That was even in the article he cherry picked from, one could not get a more dishonest point from Gack, but I think Gack will manage to find worse ones.
OK, it’s on me …
But, just to give you an idea of what really happens when a real mass grave is discovered…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinnytsia_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duffy’s_Cut
Treblinka - someone seeing bones and teeth wash up in the rain is not an indication of a Nazi mass grave.
Romania - this does not involve the Nazis
Chelmo, Belzec, …
This is new to me and will take a while … look at the first paragraph
Investigation of the camp area by Judge Włodzimierz Bednarz in 1945 apparently included excavation of pits containing human remains, even though* such excavation is not mentioned in the report** about Chelmno issued by the Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes in Poland[3]. Remains found by Bednarz and presumably mentioned in his book Obóz straceń w Chełmnie nad Nerem, Warsaw 1946, are referred to in an article by Łucja Pawlicka Nowak[4], the pertinent parts of which are quoted hereafter. *
Did Bednarz excavate pits or not? No excavations are mentioned in his report, so I would assume that he did not.
Are remains found by Bednarz mentioned in his book Obóz straceń w Chełmnie nad Nerem, or not? The paragraph says presumably mentioned. Why not check?
I will read this incredible mish-mash and try to figure out what it means over the next week or so. What am I looking for primarily? One excavated mass grave with a body count over 20.
Undoubtedly you can redefine suitable evidence over and over again to ensure none has been found for the Holocaust…
Gack: “There is no evidence!”
Everyone else: “Actually, here’s a bunch of evidence”
Gack: “Ok, but that’s just shoddy eyewitness evidence, and torture-induced confessions, and unclear documents. Where are the mass graves?”
Everyone else: “Here are the mass graves.”
Gack: “But where are the bones? Where are the bodies?”
Everyone else: “Here are the bones. Here is human ash, crushed bones, bone fragments, etc.”
Gack: “It doesn’t count until I see X number of bodies, and they must include their death certificate, signed by Hitler, with a photograph of Goebbels shooting them in the head.”
Comical and sad.
Of course, it was the Soviet “discovery” of the Katyn site that prompted the Nazis to begin destroying the evidence of their actions.
Right. It is a sign that Martians came down and obliterated the victims with death rays, giving the appearance that the Nazis had made a significant effort to destroy the evidence.
Watch it. You ignorance is showing–seriously. Are you truly going to claim that you are not aware that Romania and Bulgaria were allies of Nazi Germany who carried out their own extermination programs at the behest of the Nazis? Or are you in thread arguing about the Holocaust and you actually are ignorant of that basic fact of the war?