“Bones and teeth are oozing up out of the mud!”
“That’s perfectly normal.”
“Goddamnit man, those are human bones and human teeth. Dead human beings were put into the ground right under our feet!”
“Nope. The ground oozes teeth and bones all the time for no reason at all. It’s totally unremarkable.”
Here you go… eye witnesses aplenty.
Isadore Helfing, Treblinka eye witness:
Hershl Sperling, Treblinka eye witness:
Michal Podchlebnik, Chelmno eye witness:
There’s plenty of others there…
Isn’t this Rule 1 in the basic conspiracy theorist mindset?
If I knock 1 leg out from this theory, the whole thing falls down.
The problem is that there’s a million legs. Knocking one rotten leg down leaves 999,999 perfectly good legs.
On the other hand, we’ve got Gack’s pet theories, which rely only on a set of shaky, creaky legs placed one on top of the other.
Strange, that doesn’t happen where I live. What is it an indication of? A landslide in a churchyard?
Legs? Hell, this has a pyramid base and Gack is trying to knock pebbles off the top.
Gack, I challenge you to read the links in coremelt’s post #482, especially the one by Hershl Sperling. Do not skip a single word. If you can read these without emotion, you must be non-human. Do you think these witnesses are lying?
“Lovely mass grave; beautiful plumage.”
The Katyn massace of 1000s of Polish elite was carried out by the NKVD, the mass graves were discovered by the Nazis after they pushed the Soviets out of the area.
The Nazis invited a international team of forensics experts to oversee the excavation of the site while the war was ongoing.
The Vinnitsa mass grave was also excavated by the Nazis with an international team of forensics experts while the war was ongoing.
Yes but so what? The three massacres you’ve linked, bodies were buried in mass graves.
They were not cremated and ashes were not scattered. They were just buried and left to rot.
They have zero relevance when discussing sites where active attempts were made to destroy evidence by cremating corpses and disposing of ashes by dumping it rivers or spreading the ashes over a large area as was done at Treblinka.
Still waiting…
I am aware that the Katyn massacre was a Soviet action. That is why I put “discovered” in quotes.
I did forget that it was the Nazis, themselves, who discovered the site.
My point remains, however: after Katyn was exposed, the Nazis began taking steps to hide their activities. They seem to have been successful in hiding them from you, but the rest of us are aware of their actions.
I’ve read the first two accounts and am skeptical of both for the following reasons …
Each reports that 8000 - 10000 were killed per day, and the total quickly reaches into the hundreds of thousands, and yet there are no bodies that have been found.
The story is that for a time they were buried and then dug up and cremated, but the account in Wiernik is not credible. I don’t believe there is a credible account.
From wiki …
The camp was operated by 20–25 SS overseers (Germans and Austrians) and 80–120 Wachmänner guards from the east, trained at Trawniki.
Sperling writes …
But on average ten thousand people per day are murdered in Treblinka
Helfing’s writes …
*The 8,000 people would be gone in two hours?
Yeah*
So, the Nazis plus Ukranians are outnumbered 100 to 1, and that is not counting the Jewish residents of camp, and yet they manage to kill, bury and/or burn 10,000 people per day. The numbers seem very unlikely to me.
Martin Gilbert is an esteemed British historian …
*According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines.
*
There is a problem with this, unlike gasoline engines, diesel engines do not produce appreciable CO, and in fact are commonly used in mines … see for example …
https://www.osha.gov/dts/hazardalerts/diesel_exhaust_hazard_alert.html
So, for these reasons I am skeptical of both Sperling’s and Helfing’s accounts.
I’m not going to pursue this right now because I want to concentrate on the Chelmo, etc., mass graves and that will take some time.
I keep waiting to hear the refrain “No holes no Holocaust!”
As usual Gack is ignoring what it was found in Treblinka.
And number 2 and 3 were debunked already:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/reinhard/reinhard-faq-07.html
Less people would make it less likely that that kind of chamber would work “properly”. And I have seen references that it is possible that the ones testifying on the kind of engine were mistaken.
And his point on the diesel engines used in mines is moronic, those engines work in ventilated areas and miners are not stuffed in a single area with the engine running, the transports move the workers constantly around the tunnels.
Gack certainly is efficient at demanding cites and then finding them “not credible.”
You could start by spelling it correctly. It’s Chelmno.
I thought we were supposed to ignore the troll Gack, and instead, y’all are engaging the imp. Tomndebb, it sounds to me Gack has crossed the line amply. What gives?
Don’t accuse other posters of trolling in this forum, and don’t complain about the moderation unless you’re in ATMB.
First off, it is a violation of the rules to call another poster a troll outside The BBQ Pit, so do not do this again.
Second, while both Marley and I have noted behavior that resembled trolling, Gack has tended to avoid the specific actions that caught our attention since we pointed them out.
It is sometimes difficult to distinguish betweena True Believer and a troll, but we prefer to err on the side of caution.
[ /Moderating ]
I’d have finished my PhD much quicker if I were able to take evidence I didn’t like and just say “I don’t think that’s a credible experiment.” Instead, they do this pesky thing where we have to explain WHY we think we can discount a specific result, and we actually have to have a good reason beyond “I reckon that number ain’t right”.
Also, we’re still waiting for all of those piles of information that have been suppressed by the powers that be that Gack claims he’s just desperately eager to share with the world. Still waiting.
I confess I have no idea of what you are talking about, unless it is Blobel’s account of the cremation process.
And, coincidentally, I realize that I do have a can of gas in my garage for the mower. However, if you read the Blobel quote is says and ‘inflammable material’ was placed over the bodies, which I read as flammable material, but it does not say what the material is. So I went to the site to review it and the page is down. So, before I proceed I will need to find another copy of the confession, hopefully in German, and hopefully someone can translate what the material is.
One of the other accounts I just read says that the bodies were stacked, gasoline was poured on, the fire was lit and that was that. That is effectively the same as Blobel’s description.
I also realized that I can do the experiment even with gasoline as Blobel describes covering the bodies with inflammable(sp) material, but not adding it, so I can pull that off.
I plan to use a cut up chicken to approximate packed bodies.
Science in action.
I’ll bet $100 the chicken is barely touched.