Note - that is bullshit.
BTW I did check the USHMM:
The reason why is difficult to get numbers is that indeed Maidanek was only the main camp, there were several others in the area, the Holocaust deniers are like a military dictator from Latin America that claimed with a straight face that no people died in a celebrated location, when he knew that almost all did die in a road next to the place.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/maidanek/ftp.cgi?camps/maidanek//maidanek.03
This sort of thing really makes you look like you are playing games rather than discussing in good faith. Like your earlier nonsense claim that events in Romania had nothing to do with the Nazis, you are repeating the same nonsense, (with even less basis), here.
The Vilnius/Ponary victims were murdered by the Nazi Einsatzkommando 9. They did get help from a number of Lithuanians. (As with Russia and Ukraine, there were many ethnic German communities in the region dating to the eighteenth century. In addition, the Lithuanians, independent between the two wars had been conquered by the U.S.S.R. in 1940 and initially aligned with the German invaders whom they saw as allies in opposing the Soviets. A strong thread ofanti-semitism made it easier for a Lithuanian military unit to be assigned as support for an Einsatzkommando.
Trying to dismiss the actions of the Nazi Einsatzkommando 9 as merely a Lithuanian issue unrelated to the Nazis demonstrates either horrendous ignorance or a willful choice to ignore reality.
Gack lets see the photos of your chicken experiment* You claim it burnt for almost an hour and yet the skin was only black. I find this highly unlikely, since I once dropped a sausage into the fire and after only a few minutes most of the meat was burnt through.
Without seeing photographic evidence thats been timestamped throughout the combustion process, witnessed in triplicate and signed by a justice of the peace I will dismiss it.
*Note: I actually am not interested in the photos… see what I did there?
I’ve got a much better idea. Perhaps you could explain why SS-Standartenführer Karl Jäger put together a list breaking down by date, number of Jewish and non-Jewish shot, and the number who were women and children **who were killed by his Einsatzkommando ** in Lithuania with the total reaching 137,346 people murdered as I’ve asked you to several times, most recently just a few posts ago. If Einsatzkommando 3 didn’t murder 137,000 odd men, women and children between 2 July 1941 to 25 November 1941, why did SS-Standartenführer Karl Jäger put together a report stating that the men under his command had done just that, and proudly boasted “I can state today that the goal of solving the Jewish problem in Lithuania has been reached by Einsatzkommando 3. There are no more Jews in Lithuania, apart from working Jews and their families.” You’ll note he isn’t passing the credit off to local Lithuanians, he is stating that his men, the Nazis, committed mass murder on a monstrous scale. Further, this was only one Einsatzkommando from Einsatzgruppe A. There were 3 other Einsatzgruppe happily shooting Jews and other undesirables from the Black Sea to the Baltic.
The chicken and the sausage both had it coming.
We also got the phrase “Gacking a chicken” out of this, so not a complete waste of time.
Things I’ve learned from this thread: if you discount all available evidence for something happening, you can claim that you’ve seen no evidence for that thing happening.
I’m going to go use this knowledge on the claim that Gack is not Hitler.
I didn’t say it was unrelated, I said the Nazis were not directly responsible - in truth I’ve spent about 10 minutes studying this and don’t know what happened, but I’m sure the locals played a big part as evidenced by the following from wiki …
*Groups of partisans, civil units of nationalist-rightist anti-Soviet affiliation, initiated contact with the Germans as soon as they entered the Lithuanian territories.[1] A rogue unit of insurgents headed by Algirdas Klimaitis and encouraged by Germans from the Sicherheitspolizei and Sicherheitsdienst, started anti-Jewish pogroms in Kaunas (Kovno) on the night of 25–26 June 1941. Over a thousand Jews perished over the next few days in what was the first pogrom in Nazi-occupied Lithuania.[5][14][15] Different sources give different figures, one being 1,500[5] and another 3,800, with additional victims in other towns of the region.[15]
*
This is one of the things I can’t explain.
But, it doesn’t worry me at all. First, there is the question of the legitimacy of the document which is disputed I believe because it was found in an unlikely place 10 years after the war, and it a single document, complete without context, and with no corroborating documents.
But even if it is a legitimate document prepared by Jaeger, it would not worry me … here is why … you’re given a document from a Mafia insider that contains a list of victims that they have murdered and buried in mass graves. What happens next? The graves are located an excavated. If anyone took this document seriously they would find the graves and excavate them. Get back to me when this happens.
Also on the list of things Gack can’t explain:
Yes, we get it. The Nazis were not directly responsible for any deaths. It was the disease outbreaks in the camps, and the bullets, and the gas, and the fires, and the locals. The Nazis just happened to be passing through at the time. :rolleyes:
Where have we heard this before?
Yes, the locals played a part, but the murders were orchestrated by Einsatzkommando 9 (who did indeed pull the trigger in many cases). Undoubtedly they were acting on orders similar to the previously (and recorded) mentioned statements of Heinrich Himmler. This was similar to many local massacres- Nazi agents and their local allies rounded up and executed all the Jews (and other undesirables) throughout Eastern Europe, and the landscape is dotted with mass graves from these mass murders.
When Karl Jäger was captured and interrogated, he openly admitted that the Jews were shot en masse by the mobile killing squads, though he tried to abrogate responsibility (and killed himself shortly after).
There were numerous mass graves in Lithuania, documented by a letter from a local district medical officer complaining about sanitation in 1942, and in several photographs linked to from here.
Probably a few more things to not worry you.
That sounds like the inspiration for a riddle.
When is a sausage not like a chicken?
When it’s a Gack.
Gack’s experiment left out one crucial point: how were the chickens killed?
Hopefully he authentically recreated the entire pre-burning procedure of having one chicken marry another chicken and then having the first chicken shoot the second chicken before shooting itself before burning the bodies.
If not, I am not prepared to accept his findings and will assume the chickens are actually alive and living in Argentina.
More from high-ranking Nazis:
Goebbels stated in his diary “World Jewry will suffer a great catastrophe at the same time as Bolshevism. The Fuehrer once more expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness. We shall thereby render an inestimable service to a humanity tormented for thousands of years by the Jews. This uncompromising anti-Semitic attitude must prevail among our own people despite all objectors. The Fuehrer expressed this idea vigorously and repeated it afterward to a group of officers who can put that in their pipes and smoke it.”
Eichmann, while being interrogated: “I never saw a written order, Herr Hauptmann. All I know is that Heydrich said to me: “The Führer has ordered the physical extermination of the Jews.” He said that as clearly and surely as I’m repeating it now.” He also stated this several more times during his interrogation, using the phrase “physical extermination” (in German).
Gack has already admitted that the Nazis made the Jews take a lot of showers. Because Hitler hated the filthy Jews and only wanted nice clean ones.
Wasn’t there a letter or speech where someone expressed the negative emotional effect that mass shootings was having on the Einsatzkommando?
(I thought pointing out that if they weren’t doing the killing, then why would they be traumatized, but I doubt this argument will succeed either.)
So once again, we see this pattern played out:
Gack: “based on this evidence, it is clear that the Holocaust is a lie and the Nazis were misunderstood sweeties.”
Everyone else: “Except that’s wrong for the two dozen following very good, well-documented, logical reasons…”
Gack: “Woah, woah! I’m not an expert on this! I can’t be expected to know all that stuff! Let’s just move on. Now, based on this other evidence, it is clear…”
My favorite is when a mis-attributed photograph in an entertainment program is a lie, and by implication they could be lying about everything, but a letter explicitly admitting the killing is dismissed as a flight of fancy and all the Nazi denials are still credible.