Questions about Hitler and Nazi Germany's attempted extermination of Europe's Jews

[Farin]

@Bryan_Ekers

This is like the people who build towers out of Lego, throw model planes at them, and think they’re proved something.

That’s not fair. They prove many things. Without even watching, I can see proof of:
-They have too much free time
-Plastic planes won’t hurt plastic bricks much
-Metal planes won’t hurt plastic bricks much
-It sounds like fun. I want that much free time. :mad:

You shouldn’t dismiss these sort of things out of hand!

[aNewLeaf]

Hey now, I’ve built some pretty tall towers from Legos. :dubious: (And then there’s Orthanc.)

But here’s what I don’t get-
the Denialists want us to believe the evidence is faked, trumped up so that jewBankers can now rule the world.
But they purport it was these same jewBankers who set up the evidence, and they could do so because they were ruling the world.
So if the jewBanker Rothschilds and Rosenfelts are running the world, why do they need a Holocaust to gain control of the world?

[Gack]

@tomndebb

However, as I pointed out many posts ago, photographic evidence is the wrong place to start this discussion.

The reasons for starting with the photos have been stated and are valid for my purposes. However, we’ve been there, done that. Time to move on.

@tomndebb

Beyond that, you are still guilty of trying to move the goalposts. The discussion has always been in regards to the overall massacre of 12 million people, nearly 6 million of them Jews, between 1939 and 1945.

Just as an aside, let’s deal with the 12 million figure, which is 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews. Where did the 5 million figure come from? Holocaust historian Deborah Lipstant tells us here …

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ReportersNotebook/conversations/topics/5556

"When Israeli historians Yehuda Bauer and Yisrael Gutman challenged Wiesenthal on this point, he admitted that he had invented the figure of eleven million victims in order to stimulate interest in the Holocaust among non-Jews. He chose five million because it was almost, but not quite, as large as six million. When Elie Wiesel asked Wiesenthal who these supposed five million victims were, Wiesenthal exploded and accused him of suffering from “Judeocentrism.”

@tomndebb

Where do you get the weird idea that there is no evidence?

Let’s proceed. The murder weapon, the gas chambers.

Background, this is not controversial. The Nazis fought typhus int he camps throughout the war. Typhus is spread by lice. The Nazis had the prisoners take frequent showers (you can use amazon’s look inside the book to see that E. Wiesel mentions taking a shower six times in his short book ‘Night’, explicity for the purpose of disinfection), shaved their heads, and used a commercial insecticide, Zykon-B, which came in small tins containing pellets, to disinfect buildings and in closed chambers with special equipment to disinfect clothing. There is a building at Auschiwtz contain the fumigation rooms where clothes were disinfected, it is still standing.

Onward - the holocaust in the camps is now claimed to have happened in only six camps, Auschwitz, Majdanek, and four Rheinhard camps that were razed before the end of the war, Sobibor, Treblinka, Chelmo, and ? (can’t remember right now). At both Auschwitz and Majdanek visitors to the camps are shown a gas chamber, one at Auschwitz, one at Majdanek.

Let’s look at the doors in the Auschwitz gas chamber …

http://www.historiography-project.com/misc/doors.html

Again, draw your own conclusions. The gas chamber has regular unsealed wooden office doors, one with a plate glass window. This strikes me as highly unlikely.

There is more. You may be familiar with the method of using shower heads to pump the gas into the gas chamber. This was documented in the British movie on Dachau linked in my first post, but it was abandoned shortly after the war. Now the claimed method is that Zyklon pellets, the same used for disinfection, were tossed into the gas chamber from holes in the roof. The gas chamber at Auschwitz has holes in the roof with chutes for tossing in pellets. However, they were added by the Soviets/Poles after the war, as is revealed in this interview with the director of the Auschwitz museum, Fritz Piper …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ItUTx9QQAo

This is a must see video for anyone interested in the holocaust.

We could proceed to the gas chamber at Majdanek but I think we’ve covered enough ground, so I’ll omit that.

[Gack]

@Bryan_Ekers

This is like the people who build towers out of Lego, throw model planes at them, and think they’re proved something.

I have conceded that my experiment was worthless.

[Capt_Kirk]

@aNewLeaf

Why did Einstein leave Nazi Germany if they weren’t killing Jews? And Lise Meitner?
Why did Leo Szilard, Neils Bohr, and Enrico Fermi all flee Europe and go to work on a super weapon, if not from fear for their lives?

If the Nazis hadn’t had a policy of exterminating Jews they would have won. Stupid is as stupid does, no?

There are some factual errors in this post, mostly timeline wise

Capt

[aNewLeaf]

It was mostly pulled out of my fuzzy memory. I’ll sit here quietly for the rest of the discussion.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Gack

I have conceded that my experiment was worthless.

It is, but are you still maintaining that the cremation of corpses as originally described is impossible? I’m perhaps being impolite in not allowing myself to be so easily distracted.

[Hank_Beecher]

@Gack

The reasons for starting with the photos have been stated and are valid for my purposes. However, we’ve been there, done that. Time to move on.

Just as an aside, let’s deal with the 12 million figure, which is 6 million Jews and 5 million non-Jews. Where did the 5 million figure come from? Holocaust historian Deborah Lipstant tells us here …

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ReportersNotebook/conversations/topics/5556

"When Israeli historians Yehuda Bauer and Yisrael Gutman challenged Wiesenthal on this point, he admitted that he had invented the figure of eleven million victims in order to stimulate interest in the Holocaust among non-Jews. He chose five million because it was almost, but not quite, as large as six million. When Elie Wiesel asked Wiesenthal who these supposed five million victims were, Wiesenthal exploded and accused him of suffering from “Judeocentrism.”

Let’s proceed. The murder weapon, the gas chambers.

Background, this is not controversial. The Nazis fought typhus int he camps throughout the war. Typhus is spread by lice. The Nazis had the prisoners take frequent showers (you can use amazon’s look inside the book to see that E. Wiesel mentions taking a shower six times in his short book ‘Night’, explicity for the purpose of disinfection), shaved their heads, and used a commercial insecticide, Zykon-B, which came in small tins containing pellets, to disinfect buildings and in closed chambers with special equipment to disinfect clothing. There is a building at Auschiwtz contain the fumigation rooms where clothes were disinfected, it is still standing.

Onward - the holocaust in the camps is now claimed to have happened in only six camps, Auschwitz, Majdanek, and four Rheinhard camps that were razed before the end of the war, Sobibor, Treblinka, Chelmo, and ? (can’t remember right now). At both Auschwitz and Majdanek visitors to the camps are shown a gas chamber, one at Auschwitz, one at Majdanek.

Let’s look at the doors in the Auschwitz gas chamber …

http://www.historiography-project.com/misc/doors.html

Again, draw your own conclusions. The gas chamber has regular unsealed wooden office doors, one with a plate glass window. This strikes me as highly unlikely.

There is more. You may be familiar with the method of using shower heads to pump the gas into the gas chamber. This was documented in the British movie on Dachau linked in my first post, but it was abandoned shortly after the war. Now the claimed method is that Zyklon pellets, the same used for disinfection, were tossed into the gas chamber from holes in the roof. The gas chamber at Auschwitz has holes in the roof with chutes for tossing in pellets. However, they were added by the Soviets/Poles after the war, as is revealed in this interview with the director of the Auschwitz museum, Fritz Piper …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ItUTx9QQAo

This is a must see video for anyone interested in the holocaust.

We could proceed to the gas chamber at Majdanek but I think we’ve covered enough ground, so I’ll omit that.

I have seen all of this at one time or another. And…?

@Chronos

OK, let’s give Gack some even simpler questions, since the ones he said he’d answer are apparently too complicated for him.

1: Have your examined the various sorts of evidence? A simple yes or no will suffice.
2: Have you thought critically about the evidence? Again, yes or no.
3: Have you come to a conclusion from the evidence? Another yes or no.
Finally, if the answer to 3 is yes:
4: What conclusion have you come to?

Yes, I know, you think that that would be giving away the punchline early. But that’s the way reasoned debate works: You state what conclusion you’re going to come to, and then you show your evidence and present your arguments that lead to that conclusion. This is how courts of law work, it’s how scientific papers work, it’s how mathematical proofs work, it’s how high school social studies essays work.

That is where you start. You can’t “move on” until some time after you have started, no? What happened to the Yiddish speaking population of Poland?

[Gack]

@Hank_Beecher

What happened to the Yiddish speaking population of Poland?

My focus has been the holocaust in the camps, so I know next to nothing about the population / demographic arguments. So, I really have no idea.

For the ‘revisionist’ answer, I’ll refer you to this article by Arthur Butz, who is an ‘authority’ in the revisionist community …

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v11/v11p251_Butz.html

*The great majority of the millions allegedly exterminated were East European – not German or West European – Jews. For that reason study of the problem via population statistics has been difficult to impossible, but it is a fact that there are no longer large communities of Jews in Poland. However, the Germans were only one of several parties involved in moving Jews around. The Soviets deported virtually all of the Jews of eastern Poland to their interior in 1940. After the war, with Polish and other Jews pouring out of the East into occupied West Germany, the Zionists moved large numbers to Palestine, and the United States and other countries absorbed many Jews, in most cases under conditions making impossible a numerical accounting. Moreover, the Polish borders were changed drastically at the end of the war; the country was literally moved west.
*

[Capt_Kirk]

Gack I followed your link a few posts back and found out where your misunderstanding has come from. You are getting your info from these guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

The only authority these guys are on is “Jew Hating”

Capt

[Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension]

@Gack

And, I actually tried this, put a chicken in the bottom of my Weber with no charcoal, sprayed it with charcoal lighter fluid, lit it, kept spraying, etc. The chicken was hardly singed.

I’m going to assume you’re not married.

[coremelt]

@Gack

Let’s proceed. The murder weapon, the gas chambers.
Let’s look at the doors in the Auschwitz gas chamber …
Again, draw your own conclusions. The gas chamber has regular unsealed wooden office doors, one with a plate glass window. This strikes me as highly unlikely.

If this is the best you’ve got then its ludicrously weak. Five minutes of research with google debunks these pictures. Hint: the “office door” photo you have posted there is not an extermination chamber door.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Farin]

@Capt_Kirk

Gack I followed your link a few posts back and found out where your misunderstanding has come from. You are getting your info from these guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

The only authority these guys are on is “Jew Hating”

Capt

Gack, to follow up to Captain Kirk’s statement:

Why do you not trust places like the United States Holocaust History Museum?

Why do you give credence to places like the Institute for Historical Review over “official” places?

I do recommend you research sources (just not for Climate Change unless you want a headache) and consider all options, but why are you going so strongly against the grain? I mean, there have always been times where the status quo has to be upset because it’s stagnated, but even the places you read have been around for 35 years. Surely they’ve had enough time to rock the boat with new revelations, right?

Is this a situation where it comes down to “The Jews are controlling the world” as your driving view? What would they have stood to gain by claiming this and somehow convincing 3.5% of the world’s population to perish to maintain their secret?

I mean, they would have needed all of those people to die because the losses of war had to be felt to maintain the idea. This cost far out shadows the Jewish toll.

To my mind, it’s just a HUGE scale of deception. I’d like to know your view on what would have made these sorts of resources to fabricate the lie worthwhile.

[QuickSilver]

@Gack

My focus has been the holocaust in the camps, so I know next to nothing about the population / demographic arguments. So, I really have no idea.

For the ‘revisionist’ answer, I’ll refer you to this article by Arthur Butz, who is an ‘authority’ in the revisionist community …

So you admit that you’ve done little to no objective research of your own (aside of the chicken burning), nor do you subscribe to the widely accepted historical evidence when it is put forward. Additionally, you insist on drawing your conclusions by relying entirely upon the revisionist community for your “facts” on the subject.

Why do you think it is that you are so easily and willingly (mis)lead?

[Ludovic]

@Gack

The Nazis had the prisoners take frequent showers

…and we’re done. Nice try but I’ll give you a B- in believability.

[Musicat]

@Gack

Blobel says that the bodies were covered with gasoline, I take that to mean that gasoline was poured on.

Well, my experiment wasn’t ideal, I see now. Blobel says that he used petrol, which I take to be regular gasoline. Could I repeat my experiment using gasoline without undue risk to myself ? How would you add the gasoline, squirt from a bottle as per lighter fluid?

Gack, let’s say you set fire to a chicken using petrol, jet planes, thermite and wishful thinking, but it doesn’t burn the way you would like. What does that prove? Let me suggest some possibilities:[ol][li]The Holocaust never happened, or[*]Your experiment is flawed.[/ol][/li]
What are the odds?

[Gack]

@coremelt

If this is the best you’ve got then its ludicrously weak. Five minutes of research with google debunks these pictures. Hint: the “office door” photo you have posted there is not an extermination chamber door.

Draw your own conclusions.

You are wrong. This is not controversial.

[Gack]

@Farin

To my mind, it’s just a HUGE scale of deception. I’d like to know your view on what would have made these sorts of resources to fabricate the lie worthwhile.

This is a different aspect of the question altogether, and so I’d say let’s examine the gas chambers, the documentary evidence and the testimony, and then look at the bigger picture. This is a question that doesn’t get too much attention in the revisionist literature, however it is the main topic in Butz’s book which remains the best source. We will get to it.

[Gack]

@Ludovic

…and we’re done. Nice try but I’ll give you a B- in believability.

This is not controversial. Go to amazon.com, use the search inside the book feature on Elie Wiesel’s book ‘Night’ and search for shower and read each section.

[Battle_Pope]

This story about Holocaust survivors putting their stories into an online exhibition just popped up today on the Australian ABC news site.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-20/holocaust-survivors-put-memories-online/4970490

“This Polish woman heard a baby crying and went in to investigate and that’s when she found myself and my grandmother,” Ms Temple recalls of the time.

“My grandmother died the day after. I really hope that she knew that I had been saved because she obviously gave up everything to look after me, to save me.”

Eva Temple and her grandmother were inmates of the Bergen-Belsen camp.

It had just been liberated by the British. In the confusion and horror, it was easy to overlook a nine-month-old infant and her grandmother who were still stuck in the vermin-infested barracks.

“The barracks were so indescribably filthy, the British had decided to burn them down … I’m sure they’d have found us though before they did,” she said.

Having lived through Nazi persecution, Andrew Steiner is asked by a student if he ever felt like retaliating.

The now 80-year-old artist replied: “The best revenge has been to take off the yellow stars and live.”