I just attended my first Catholic mass yesterday (a funeral) and the reception lunch afterwards. Something I, and the other protestants in the room, are curious about is the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer. There were several times it was said, and without fail the final line “for thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever and ever” was omitted.
Pretty simple question. Why?
I didn’t feel like it was the appropriate occasion to ask while there.
I remember saying it at Mass, and after the last official Catholic line, the priest would say a few words about what, I don’t remember, and then we’d finish with “the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours for ever and ever. Amen”
Huh. Every Catholic Church I’ve gone to in my life has used that line. And I’m Catholic, and I’ve been to a fair number of churches. I went to a new one this morning and, yup, the line was there. And the Lord’s Prayer is said only once during Mass (though you mentioned a reception as well, so I assume it was said there as well).
ETA: Oh, you’re talking about a funeral. The order of Mass might be a bit different, with the prayer being said multiple times.
Regardless, the Priest has some say in how the mass is performed. Perhaps it’s just not a line he cared for?
AFAIK, every Western Latin Mass uses the line in the mentioned format and it’s not celebrant’s choice. But then again, Funeral Masses do change the order of things; or else may be that you were at a Catholic Funeral Service, as opposed to the full-blown Mass.
But it is true that for most Catholics the version with the closing call-and-response doxology is heard only in formal Mass, and when it is used in “lay” prayer, for instance after each decade of a Rosary, it is NOT included.
Apparently at some point in between the codification of the Gospels and the Reformation, some confusion arose as to whether that line was part of the original scripture, or inserted afterwards by some scribe, so it sort of comes and goes in the various translations. It’s sort of the way that “so help me God” comes to be expected to be part of official civil oaths.
I am a Catholic, however I am not a Roman Catholic.
I was brought up in the RCC, and therefore remember the lords prayer as you call it well.
I would wonder why this wasn’t recited during service in the Christian(Catholic) Missionary Alliance Church.
Then at 0200hrs one night in the prayer room while praying and struggling with this prayer as you say,:smack::smack::smack: I get it, while reading the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 11, This is an “Outline of how to pray to the father” Not a prayer in itself.
I put the quote tags around this sample of how I pray the prayers Jesus instructed us to pray in Luke chapter 11
I was brought up Catholic. Once, in about 5th grade, we had a non-catholic sudent. She was scheduled to read the lord’s prayer. Before she read it, the nun teacher explained that the extra words at the end were just something extra that some non-catholics add.
In other words, I guess catholics don’t say it. I know I never did…
I’m not sure whether they called it a funeral service or a mass. It was fairly long…longer than any protestant funeral I’ve ever been to. They did several call-and-respond prayers (one I recall had the people refrain “Lord, hear our prayer.”) They also did the holy water, incense, communion, etc.
What’s interesting is that in the program, the Lord’s prayer was arranged much as RedRosesForMe remembers, with the people reciting with the priest until the last part, where there were, IIRC, three or so sentences that the priest was supposed to say, then the people finished the “for thine is…” line.
However, it was omitted entirely. Got to “but deliver us from evil” and then on to the next part of the program.
Regardless, an interesting discussion. Thanks for the input everyone!
The doxology is included in the Catholic mass, but as ponted out above it comes a short time after the Lord’s prayer, with an intervening prayer by the priest, and it is not regarded as part of the Lord’s Prayer; i.e. we don’t think we’re saying the Lord’s Prayer with an interruption by the priest, we think we’re finishing the Lord’s Prayer, then the priest says a prayer, then we say a doxology. In the Catholic tradition the doxology is not used in conjunction with the Lord’s prayer in any context outside mass. I was quite surprised, in my late teens, to discover that Protestants appended it directly to the Lord’s Prayer, and regarded it as part of the Lord’s Prayer.
Yes, it’s certainly an example of HOW to pray, not in and of itself something for recitation. However, it’s the only one I ever say word-for-word, not for empty by-rote prayer, but because it is arranged so beautifully. However, you’re quite right that it’s intended as an example of how to pray.
This caused a problem for me when I was younger. In my public school they would start by leading us in reciting the Lord’s prayer outloud. The teacher and most of the students were Roman Catholic and ommitted that phrase. I would continue and be looked at oddly. It was either that or not say it and think I was going to hell. That is why I am so anti-school prayer.
First of all, a nitpick, but you mean the Nicene Creed, not the Apostles’ Creed. The Apostles’ Creed is a shorter and less theologically-detailed version which is pretty much only recited as part of the Rosary (by Catholics, at least). But even at that, the Nicene Creed is sometimes replaced by the reiteration of the baptismal vows (especially if there’s a baptism at that particular mass), and I’ve known at least one priest who, for reasons of his own, chooses to omit it (I’ve never gotten around to asking him why).