I’ve noticed that manny people in the religious threads type “G-d” instead of “God.” Why (besides possibly to drive ignorant fools like myself crazy)?
We don’t want him sending us cease-and-desist letters regarding his trademark.
Well, the dash key is pretty near the ‘o’ key…nahhhhh.
There is no course of life so weak and sottish as that which is managed by order, method, and discipline. -Montaigne
Strainger asks:
Well, it’s like this. As you undoubtedly know, the Torah is not written with vowel points (*i.e.,*it is purely written in a consonantal alphabet. This makes possible variant readings that…but I digress). The Tetragrammaton, however, (that is, the actual name of the Holy One, blessed be He), is written with vowel points…but the vowel points of the word adonai, not of the actual Divine Name itself (which led to medieval abortions such as “Jehovah”…but I digress again). This reflects the tradition that no one but the High Priest is permitted to pronounce the actual Divine Name, and he but once a year, and the rest of us should use euphemisms such as Adonai and *HaShem<i/> (the latter meaning “The Name”).
Now, when Romanized, the Divine Name is usually written YHWH, without vowels. Some ultra-pious Jews (usually Hasidim) will also write “G-D”, as a reminder to one and all to use a euphemism (there is also a Halakhic dispute as to whether causing the Divine Name to appear on a VDT is more akin to speaking it, or writing it; in any case, it is the accepted Halakhah that, once written, it may not be erased). Some hyper-ultra-pious Jews will even go so far as to remove vowels from out-and-out euphemisms as HaShem, producing “H-SH-M” instead. There’s a limit, even to the requirements of Halakhah (indeed, one of the fundamental tenets of Judaism that differentiates from Christianity is…but I digress yet again, and probably into an area better handed in the Great Debates section, or even the Pit).
“Gold cannot always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold”
As you can see from Akatsukami’s post, this is a question that easily leads to digression. The short answer is that the Ten Commandments include “Do not take the Lord’s Name in vain.” There are many interpretations of what that means, but some people (mostly Orthodox Jews, although I have seen the usage by some Christians) take that to mean not to write down the word “God” frivilously. Hence, “G-d” is used, mimicking the ancient vowelless Hebrew style.
BTW, not all Orthodox Jews use this affectation. They argue that God’s “name” as referenced in the Bible text is the four-lettered Name (discussed by Akatsukami above). The Biblical commandment didn’t have anything to do with the word “God” in English.
The topic of God’s Name is a complex one, with 3,000 years of commentary, thought, ideas, and traditions developing from a few simple lines of Hebrew Biblical text.
As an Orthodox Jew, and one who does have the habit of writing the Deity’s name as “G-d”, I can tell you that the main reason it’s done is so that the name of G-d doesn’t get erased or thrown out, and thereby desecrated. By not writing the entire word (and, while there are differing opinions, most Orthodox Jews believe that it applies to translations of the G-d noun as well as to the Hebrew word/name itself), the likelihood of that happening is greatly reduced.
Chaim Mattis Keller
ckeller@schicktech.com
“Sherlock Holmes once said that once you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be
the answer. I, however, do not like to eliminate the impossible.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity to it that the merely improbable lacks.”
– Douglas Adams’s Dirk Gently, Holistic Detective
I’m one of the people who does this, and pretty much for the reasons CM gives.
Also, it’s a pretty well-ingrained habit.
When an Israeli rabbinical court decided that erasing a VDT display was not the same as erasing writing, and yet I continued to write G-d, I got about six different IM’s, and I don’t know how many e-mails, from people telling me to to cut it out – wasn’t I up on the latest rabbinical thought?
Of course I was. But just because a rabbinical court said it is permissible to spell out G-d fully on a VDT, doesn’t mean I must. I am in the habit of writing G-d, and have no desire to break the habit.
Sorry. I’m a little grumpy today.
–Rowan
Shopping is still cheaper than therapy. --my Aunt Franny
Sure, but the whole point of not erasing (crumbling up, throwing out) the Name of God is derived from the commandment of not taking that Name in vain.
The main thrust of the ruling that deleting an electronic version is not the same as erasing was (I presume) so that online study could happen in Hebrew. I call up a page of Bible text in Hebrew, with the four-lettered Name on it, then I can’t delete it? That’d effectively stop online study, and hence the rabbinic ruling that electronic versions don’t count.
I don’t use the four-lettered Name in writing or even electronically, but I have no problem with the English words.
So, Strainger, to answer your question: it’s largely a matter of personal preference. I understand Rowan’s perspective perfectly, it’s largely habit to go one way or 'tother.
I have seen some Christians who use “G-d”, and I would be curious to hear from them on their rationale.
Wow! Thanks Akatsukami, CK, cm, and Rowan! I learned a lot more than I expected to. I’m glad I asked that question.
“I wept because I had no shoes, then I met a man with no feet. So I took his shoes” - Dave Barry
Somebody call CNN! A God Thread (or is that G-d Thread :)) has reached a consensus!
I really don’t have anything to add to this thread. I’m Christian, and have never been taught that writing the Big Guy’s name in a temporary media is blashphemous.
“I had a feeling that in Hell there would be mushrooms.” -The Secret of Monkey Island
It is popularly thought that the reason for the hyphen is out of respect, and that is not really wrong, but most people are not aware of the technical and historical basis behind it. Namely, there is a section in the Torah (sorry, I couldn’t find it in the on-line concordances, but I’ll try to find it at home and post it here on Monday) which says something to the effect of “Destroy and wipe out all the idols, and even their names and memories, but do not do so to the Lord your God.” From this we get the idea that we should not allow God’s Name to be destroyed.
Yes, there are varying opinions about whether this applies to languages other than Hebrew, or whether it is extended beyond names to include titles. And so on.
As I understand it, the reason why a video screen is different than paper is this: One cannot erase anything from a video screen, even if one tried. The screen is constantly refreshed, many times a second. When a person presses the “delete” or “backspace” key, he is not erasing anything; rather, he is telling the system not to refresh it. Thus, it falls far short of the injunction not to destroy His Name.
My personal practice is to always use the hyphen, even when on-line, when in a Jewish area of the Net. In a mixed group such as here, I avail myself of the video screen exemption, specifically to avoid annoying people, which is what started this question to begin with.
Actually, it wasn’t the pratice of typing “G-d” that was driving me nuts, just my curiosity as to why (hence the question). Just wanted to clarify that for the record. Thanks all!
“I wept because I had no shoes, then I met a man with no feet. So I took his shoes” - Dave Barry
In all seriousness, I think the reason that people hyphenate “God” is a subconscious attempt to avoid offending religious nutcases. The last thing you want is for a religious nutcase to pay attention to you and to actually REPLY to your original message, bringing up a topic that is inflammatory and has little or nothing to do with what you were talking about.
I’ve seen this happen many times on mailing lists- someone uses “God” or “goddamned” to describe something, and then some offended religious person changes the thread topic irreversibly to a flame war about “using God’s name in vain”. It has a way of silencing all dialogue about other topics.
This happened to me once on an epilepsy mailing list- I was writing about repeatedly being brought to hospitals against my will. this is what I wrote:
That statement garnered this response:
You can imagine where the discussion went from there.
>>Yes, there are varying opinions about whether this applies to languages other than Hebrew, or whether it is extended beyond
names to include titles. And so on.
As I understand it, the reason why a video screen is different than paper is this: One cannot erase anything from a video screen,
even if one tried. The screen is constantly refreshed, many times a second. When a person presses the “delete” or “backspace”
key, he is not erasing anything; rather, he is telling the system not to refresh it. Thus, it falls far short of the injunction not to destroy His Name.<<
I asked my rabbi, and she said “What if someone hits ‘print screen’?”
BTW: not everyone who prefers “G-d” to the version with “o” is a religious nutcase.
–Rowan
Shopping is still cheaper than therapy. --my Aunt Franny
Thanks for offering your opinion Lipochrome, but I’m going to have to go with the supported facts (including personal experience) of the other four posters that I thanked previously.
“I wept because I had no shoes, then I met a man with no feet. So I took his shoes” - Dave Barry
>>Somebody call CNN! A God Thread (or is that G-d Thread ) has reached a consensus!<< --Diceman
Diceman, you reminded me of the following joke:
In mighty ecumenical conclave, the religious leaders of the world decided to iron out their differences for the good of humanity, eliminating once and for all the petty doctrinal disputes that have blinded their followers to their common ethical teachings. In quick succession, the Sunni Muslims announced that they have de-emphasized the Haj, the Shiites issued a renunciation of jihad, after which Afghanistan stopped enforcing the Taliban. The Patriarchs of the Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches, along with the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury, issued statement giving up the Trinity and the virginity of Mary. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists gave up door to door missions, while Christian Science accepted medical care. The Hindus give up on pantheism, the Shintoists animism, the Zoroastrians dualism, and even the followers of Madelyn Murray O’Hair recognized the possibility, if the not the probability, of a Divinity. The Dalai Lama renounced the doctrine of reincarnation a couple of days later.
And so the world waited, with bated breath, as the Rabbi Lau, Rav Schach, and Rishon
LeTzion Ovadiah Yosef remained locked in closed session day after day. Wild rumors flew up the alleys of Jerusalem and across the world’s airwaves. Finally, the sages stepped out in front of the flashbulbs, sweaty and pale. In a quavering voice, one of them read from a prepared statement, and simultaneous translators relayed his words to a billion living rooms around the globe:
"After deep consideration of the momentous nature of this occasion, and with
abiding faith in heaven, we have undertaken an unprecedented step, and have decided, in
the greater cause of peace among the children of Adam, to eliminate the second Yekum Purkan from the Shabbat Musaf service."
–Rowan
Shopping is still cheaper than therapy. --my Aunt Franny
Rowan wrote
That is precisely why I use the hyphen when I am in specifically Jewish areas of the Net. But when conversing with people to whom this punctuation is unusual, my feeling (I have not asked my rabbi about it) is that this is one of the cases where being too strict causes us to lose more than we gain.
Considering that many authorities see no problem when the Name is in a language other than Hebrew, and that people do have the option of copy-edit-paste (so they can delete the “o” themselves if they want), I’d rather write user-friendly posts than annoy people with hyphens.
>>Considering that many authorities see no problem when the Name is in a language other than Hebrew, and that people do have the option of copy-edit-paste (so they can delete the “o” themselves if they want), I’d rather write user-friendly posts than annoy people with hyphens.<< --Keeves
People who have time to get annoyed by hyphens have too much free time.
–Rowan
PS: Keeves? Nu? Have you visited the “Yiddish” thread?
The source which I referred to in my post of 06-18-99 11:50 AM is Deuteronomy 12:3-4 – “… and destroy their names, but do not do so to the Lord your God.”
(re: Yiddish: Sorry, but I tried it. Way above my level.)
Why is it that this hyphenation thing reminds me of the age old debate about the sex of angels and how many of the latter could stand on the head of a pin? And of the immeasurable contribution it brought to the advancement of modern religion as we know it?