R.I.P. Sopranos - 06/10/07 (Open SPOILERS after post #12)

[Zeldar]

I have rewatched the finale twice and replayed the last few minutes another time or two but I’m not considering my viewings to have been focused on more than has been spotted so far by others.

There is one thing I have been aware of and that is that Tony’s demeanor at the table is not as jittery or preoccupied as it might have been. He seems to me to be killing time waiting for the others to get there. He tinkers with the jukebox, plays with the menu, shifts about in his seat, glances up occasionally toward the door, but seems basically oblivious to others in the place. Maybe he’s better at concealing any anxiety or dread than others are, but his actions don’t foretell any impending doom.

Just an observation, not an interpretation.

[El_Cid_Viscoso]

It’s a daydream of what he’ll become if he lams.

He walks into the diner and sees himself sitting at the table like a mook, waiting to either testify or die.

[Rilchiam]

That’s a possibility. It seemed so odd to me that they were in a scrank diner like that. There are a lot of food scenes on this show, but characters are rarely seen eating white-people food.

[KneadToKnow]

@Rilchiam

white-people food.

They’ve become Wonder Bread wops*.

• Tony’s term (well, actually Johnny Boy’s), not mine.

[Zeldar]

@Rilchiam

That’s a possibility. It seemed so odd to me that they were in a scrank diner like that. There are a lot of food scenes on this show, but characters are rarely seen eating white-people food.

Maybe this is a subtle caving in to the Anti-Defamation movement.

[Fiddle_Peghead]

There are no alternative endings. See bottom.

[Hippy_Hollow]

@Trunk

One thing that sort of bugged me about the last episode is that, like Chase said. . .you couldn’t predict it. You know why? Because it was really inconsistent with everything else that happened the rest of the season.

There’s been no hints that Phil’s men were uncomfortable with his power grab and that they wouldn’t care about his whacking.

There’s been no hints that the FBI guy would help Tony.

There’s been no hints that AJ was just going to snap out of it when he got a new car, or that his parents were going to cave.

Meadow’s change to want to be a mob lawyer was very abrupt, almost a 180.

There’s been no real indication that Paulie is thinking about reducing his role.

For all of these reasons, I found the final episode a bit lacking. Still, I loved the ending.

I couldn’t disagree more. Phil took over the family after killing the rightful next guy in line. His hard-on for Tony because of his brother and the Vito thing was evident. When they had the sit-down with the old mob guy, Butchie and his pal seemed resigned to cut their losses with Phil. Phil has no family, no-one to avenge him if he exits, and his shit-talking disrupted business and killed a lot of people. It makes sense to take him out and let someone more balanced take over.

Agent Harris has been friendly to Tony for a very long time. This has been a thread going for a long time in the show. Harris is obviously a fed, Tony is obviously a mobster. But they co-exist, and both know what the other’s up to. In fact, a few shows ago, Tony inquired about the possibility of cooperating. And as others have noted, he likes Tony and is rooting for him, certainly at least he dislikes him least - Phil, on the other hand, had an agent raped, remember? He mentioned this to Tony a few episodes ago.

AJ is a moron and a puddle-deep thinker. It’s no surprise that once he had all the accountrements of successful life, he would act differently. I do think you have a little bit of a point here, though.

Meadow has always had a blind spot about her dad, and she thinks that he’s this on-the-level garbage disposal manager type with shady friends. Remember her protesting with the cops when they arrested her dad?

Last, Paulie is not cut out to be a top guy. He’s quite happy where he is. We’ve never seen any indication that he aspires to anything above his station. Paulie obviously grew up with Johnny and Junior, but never rose to their level, even though they both became bosses. It was perfectly in line with him not to eagerly accept the captaincy.

[NDP]

@Philster

The Soprano’s finale truly is gripping.

I was wondering:

Where is the obvious GQ question about the physics of an SUV slowly rolling over someones head? Off to GQ for me, because non-entranced Dopers would normally have been all over that!

That reminds me, did the Ford SUV slip out of gear before it started to roll? I can’t remember whether Phil’s daughter put it in “Neutral” just before he got hit or if it had been in “Drive” the whole time. I realize this may be unimportant but Ford had a big problem years ago with defective transmissions that used to slip gears with the slightest vibrations. That scene in the episode automatically reminded me of that (which is probably not what Ford had in mind when they got product placement on the show).

[RogueRacer]

@Hippy Hollow

Last, Paulie is not cut out to be a top guy. He’s quite happy where he is. We’ve never seen any indication that he aspires to anything above his station. Paulie obviously grew up with Johnny and Junior, but never rose to their level, even though they both became bosses. It was perfectly in line with him not to eagerly accept the captaincy.

I’m pretty sure Paulie has been a captain for the entire series. He was being asked to take an additional crew.

[Keeve]

@NDP

That reminds me, did the Ford SUV slip out of gear before it started to roll? I can’t remember whether Phil’s daughter put it in “Neutral” just before he got hit or if it had been in “Drive” the whole time. I realize this may be unimportant but Ford had a big problem years ago with defective transmissions that used to slip gears with the slightest vibrations. That scene in the episode automatically reminded me of that (which is probably not what Ford had in mind when they got product placement on the show).

Good points and good questions, but I was bothered by a whole different thing: How did the driver’s door get locked? She jumped out and started screaming, and then could not get back in. Why not?

[Keeve]

@Rilchiam

That’s a possibility. It seemed so odd to me that they were in a scrank diner like that. There are a lot of food scenes on this show, but characters are rarely seen eating white-people food.

And why the focus on onion rings specifically? Did they ever appear in another episode?

[Hippy_Hollow]

@RogueRacer

I’m pretty sure Paulie has been a captain for the entire series. He was being asked to take an additional crew.

I think that’s probably correct… I get the terminology confused. To make it clearer, Paulie is in middle management mob-style, and doesn’t desire to senior level status. That’s what I meant.

BTW, have we ever seen Silvio in a tracksuit?

[diku]

@RogueRacer

I’m pretty sure Paulie has been a captain for the entire series. He was being asked to take an additional crew.

No, he was just a crew member under Tony, who was the captain of the crew. When Tony moved up in the world, he became a captain. He later became underboss, with him and Sil directly below Tony, above the rest, and Chris took over being captain of his old crew (Chris was interim captain when Paulie was in jail.).

He had been somewhat devalued over the last year, with Tony complaining about the lack of money he was bringing in.

[jrepka]

@NDP

That reminds me, did the Ford SUV slip out of gear before it started to roll? I can’t remember whether Phil’s daughter put it in “Neutral” just before he got hit or if it had been in “Drive” the whole time. I realize this may be unimportant but Ford had a big problem years ago with defective transmissions that used to slip gears with the slightest vibrations. That scene in the episode automatically reminded me of that (which is probably not what Ford had in mind when they got product placement on the show).

I’d have to go back and look again, but since she was just dropping him off and it’s an automatic transmission, I would imagine she never shifted from drive to neutral. When Phil was shot, she jumped out w/o thinking.

As to why the door locked automatically, I have to admit that I got my first car with electric locking just a few months ago, and I’m still hitting the wrong buttons all the time. Is it possible that she hit the lock button as she jumped out? Locking the doors is one of those actions I’ve always done without thinking most of my life.

What I wondered about at the time was, how come the bystanders that ran to help went to the driver’s door when the passenger window was open? And why didn’t anyone think to drag Phil’s body out of the way, rather than try to stop a 1.5 ton vehicle? I know, because (1) heat of the moment, we don’t notice these things and react quickly enough, and (2) someone thinking quickly like that would have cost us one of the great moments in Foley Artist history…

[stolichnaya]

My mom’s car locks the doors automatically when the car is in drive, a crazy feature that might account for the series of events.

Here’s my theory- You, the viewing audience, are the car. You got jumped out of. You locked your doors automatically. And you ran over the head of Tony’s rival. Think about it. You wanted to, didn’t you? You reprobates.

[Hippy_Hollow]

I loved the Black kid bystanders, especially the one who barfed in a projective manner. Great touch! Good work, Walden (which also makes me laugh - it is the softest mob name ever)!

[descamisado]

@Hippy Hollow

. . . . Meadow has always had a blind spot about her dad, and she thinks that he’s this on-the-level garbage disposal manager type with shady friends. Remember her protesting with the cops when they arrested her dad? . . .

Everything you’ve said your post is well-reasoned and highly plausible, but I have to disagree with you on the above.

Early on in the show Meadow came right out and asked Tony if he was part of the Mob. Additionally, at various times when she’s being her most sulkiest, she makes sly and sarcastic references to it.

I don’t think one asks this question or makes those types of references unless one is pretty much sure of the truth of it.

I do think she’s devoted to her father and a bit of a Daddy’s girl (remember in the epi just the two of the went out saki bombing). Her comment at the end about fighting for Italian-Americans was brilliant. It was half bullshit / half devotion to her Dad, but it left him speechless.

Also, I wanted to comment that I liked the show of affection when Tony reached across to touch A.J.'s hand, the, as if to say he accepted him. I also liked A.J.'s quote of something Tony had said in the past, letting Tony know he had been listening all along. Not sure if Tony died or not (see my interpretation*), but, to me, this was an indication of how all families fight, grow and eventually bond.

I also liked the black kids at the gas station too, for some reason.

• Originally posted by me "I think they give us enough tension, drama and some resolution. At least Phil’s dying was resolution enough for me.

On the one hand, I think the ending could have been a little more dramatic, shoot-em-up, and “let’s resolve everything,” like everyone expected.

On the other hand, it feels like, creatively, Chase gave us the only ending he could have – confounding everyone’s expectations overall and giving us enough unresolved strands to allow each of us to finish the story in our on way."

[descamisado]

@Keeve

And why the focus on onion rings specifically? Did they ever appear in another episode?

Comment on the circle of life?

[Hippy_Hollow]

@5-4-Fighting

Everything you’ve said your post is well-reasoned but I have to disagree with you on the above.

Early on in the show Meadow came right out and asked Tony if he was part of the Mob. Additionally, at various times when she’s being her most sulkiest, she makes sly and sarcastic references to it.

I don’t think you ask this question or make those types of references unless you’re pretty much sure of the truth of it.

I do think she’s devoted to her father and a bit of a Daddy’s girl (remember in the epi just the two of the went out saki bombing) Her comment at the end was brilliant. It was half bullshit / half devotion to her Dad, but it left him speechless.

Also, I wanted to comment that I liked the show of affection when Tony reached across to touch A.J.'s hand, the, as if to say he accepted him. I also liked A.J. quote of something Tony had said in the past, letting Tony know he had been listening all along. Not sure if Tony did or not (see my interpretation, but, to me, this was an indication of how all families fight, grow and eventually bond.

Yeah, I think we can argue back and forth about how much Meadow knows, and find support on either side. Personally, if Meadow befriended and met a kid of another mobster, she’d figure it out. But in her own house, I think she spins a fiction where she believes Dad is mostly doing waste management, and sure, he gets a kickback here and there, and maybe her grandpa Johnny was in the mob… but not us! We live in a regular house in a regular neighborhood. The stuff in the papers, it’s just because my grandpa was mob connected. My dad goes to work, files taxes, and so on. Why is it any time an Italian person is doing well they claim they’ve got Mafia ties? My dad definitely knows mob guys, but he’s not one of the big shots…

Don’t know if I can support it any better than that rationale. It’s just a vibe I get.

[Zeldar]

@5-4-Fighting

Comment on the circle of life?

That would work. Believe it or not, I was thinking about the O-rings in the shuttle mishap. Aside from that, if the diner’s rings were as famous as they alluded to, it was just time to drop in for some. Just to keep things in the mundane.