Race: Human

Great Debates
1

I’ve been interested to see how many people feel that it is invasive for the government to ask them what their racial background is. My college (the residential college at my university) has an emphasis on being multiethnic, and over the last four years, I have been taught not to ignore the racial and ethnic backgrounds of other people, but to respect and honor them. I don’t think it’s really wise to attempt to be “color-blind.” Would you really want to forget your own cultural background? As a member of an ethnic and religious minority, I feel strongly that I am not just American - there are other important facets to my identity that have strong meaning to me. (I don’t even know if they ask about this on the census, seeing as I am ‘white’.)

I have a feeling I’m going to get flamed for this, but oh well. I have a suspicion that most people who get all huffy about being asked for race and insist upon writing ‘human’ are white. People of minority status generally want to be recognized as members of those groups. (I hope I’ve made myself clear when I say “most” or “generally”. I don’t mean EVERYONE does this and EVERYONE does that.) I have my own ideas about why that is…what do y’all think?

~Kyla

“What Would Captain Planet Do?”

2

No flames Kyla.

I understand the need for some to go for the “cultural diversity” thing. (Not diminishing it…just an economy of words there.)

I too have “minority” roots that run deep, but I also see the highly divisive results that sprang from what could have been a good idea. Instead of the culturally diverse and understanding society that we had hoped for, we have many cultural and ethnic enclaves scrambling to emphasize their own needs and importance to the exclusion of others.

I don’t get “huffy” about the questions per se–it’s more the attitude that one is often identified by their cultural and ethnic background, instead of their human qualities, that gets to me.

I don’t identify myself by my pedigree, nor do I similarly identify others. To do otherwise seems somewhat unhealthy to me. I prefer to identify a person by their achievements and their behaviour instead of externalities.

On forms, I jot down “human” and keep on moving. When asked the odd question, I smile and inquire, “Why do you ask?” Most folks realize that they can’t justify the question beyond, “Just curious, I guess.” In challenging the rational behing such questions, I often find that it somehow does matter to them.

I can handle that. They can handle my silence on that point–or not.

The only problem that I have with this is trying to explain to others my rational for this–so many layers of programming to chip through to get to anything approaching a receptive ear.

:::shrug:::

Nobody said it would be easy, eh? :slight_smile:

–Kalél
TheHungerSite.com
“If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.”
“Well, there was that thing with the Cheese-Wiz…but I’m feeling much better now!” – John Astin, Night Court

3

I don’t think it’s necessarily invasive to ask, but I do think it’s divisive.

As EngimaOne has said, the problem is the emphasis on the enclave over the whole. Categorizing people based on race frequently serves no useful purpose. Although it does have uses, specifically in the field of medicine (disorders which have risk factors based on ethnicity), the inclusion of the race factor in areas where it is not necessary is a pigeon hole we don’t need.

I have no problem with people who celebrate and enjoy their cultural heritage, but when it gets to the point of “my people first,” it becomes an issue. There is a fine line between historical appreciation and hysterical exclusionism. We are all human; in my opinion we should be looking for ways to better identify with all humans, not just the specific sub-set of ethnicity to which we belong. It seems we could do without more barriers to communication.

As Abraham Lincoln said, “I am less concerned with who my grandfather was than with who his grandson will be.”

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

4

As Abraham Lincoln said, “I am less concerned with who my grandfather was than with who his grandson will be.”

I’ve always liked that quote, and humbly add “And who my grandchildren will be.”
Tolerant, I hope.
Peace,
mangeorge

I only know two things;
I know what I need to know
And
I know what I want to know
Mangeorge, 2000

5

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

I like that for many reasons!!

–Kalél
TheHungerSite.com
“If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.”
“Well, there was that thing with the Cheese-Wiz…but I’m feeling much better now!” – John Astin, Night Court

6

Gee, thanks, guys. Got a million of 'em. The “unreasonable man” quote is from George Bernard Shaw, by the way.

As to the OP: Remember when America was supposed to be the melting pot? Don’t hear that particular phrase much any more, do you? It was a symbol of the free exchange of one’s ideas and the sharing of elements of one’s cultural heritage combined with the will to participate in the growing of a new, American heritage. What we seem to see now is that the pot ain’t melting.

Even in this new increasingly digital age, where internet connections are ubiquitous and politicians use buzzwords like “global village,” there is resistance to identifying with anyone but those immediately around us. Hey, I’m not “just American” either, I’m human.

7

The concept of the American melting pot has been replaced by that of the salad, where each ingredient becomes part of the whole, yet keeps its own distinctive character and flavor.

I have a lot of fun with diversity, and I wouldn’t want to lose it. It’s one of the reasons my family moved back to California after spending one year in Buffalo, New York: we missed the cultural diversity. My secretary is Filipino (the one before her was from the island of Java!), and I know that this adds to the fun and the interest at work, particularly at holiday times.

Eldest Son’s birthday was last week, and he took three friends to Magic Mountain with him. One friend is Jewish, one is Asian Indian, and one is Greek. His world, and certainly mine, has been enriched and enhanced by this. He has attended Jewish festivals, including his friend’s bar mitzvah, he has learned about the temple or shrine to the ancestors maintained in his Indian friend’s home, and how to respect that, and we’ve all had some great food from parents of other ethnically diverse friends. My kids have celebrated Diwali and Kwanza and Purim and a host of other festivals with their friends.

AND they are absolutely “color-blind” in the sense that the skin color doesn’t mean anything. Jabari’s black? Yeah, so? Cool, I guess I don’t need to lend him the suntan lotion then, do I mom?

On an interpersonal level therefore, Kyla, no, I would not want to lose that richness, and become blandly the same. BUT I firmly believe that our government has no legitimate reason for identifying which of its citizens belong to which “race” or cultural background. What color or national heritage is yours should have absolutely no effect on your rights – AND your responsibilities – as a citizen.

Is my immediately family white? Yes, predominantly. My extended family is not. Further, my husband is part American Indian. The concept of “race” becomes more and more meaningless as a “classification” as we intermarry more, and as we learn to treat people as people based on who they are rather than who their ancestors were.

-Melin

Sig line CENSORED

8

Hey, yet one more Census thread, raising questions that have been asked, answered, challenged, and beat around the bush elsewhere!

9

[[Hey, yet one more Census thread, raising questions that have been asked, answered, challenged, and beat around the bush elsewhere!]]

And, for the most part, reasonable rationale and explanations (for why the Census collects this data) ignored!

10

Here’s what I don’t like about the Census Bureau asking my race: As the government has so poignantly pointed out, the census data will be used to determine who gets federal funds (the commercials with the class taught in a closet, etc.)

The government wouldn’t ask about race if they were “just curious.” Also note, they aren’t interested in ethnicity, only skin color in the broadest, most ill-defined terms. (I’m white, of Irish, English and French-Canadian ancestry. Do you think the feds care? Of course not. It doesn’t matter - I’m white. Right?)

So, if their not the least interested in specifics, what do they want to know for? To use race as political currency, as they have for years. The government will use this info to dole out federal money. The government has an historical record of granting money to minority programs.

I live in northern Michigan, where the population is at least 90 percent white. Answering the race question will probably help funnel money away from my community. That hardly seems fair.

“Nothing is so firmly believed as what is least known” - Michel Gyquem de Montaigne

11

[[The government will use this info to dole out federal money.]]

Census data, including race information is used for many, many other things. It’s how we find out, for example, about the discrepancies in health status between different groups.
Etc.
Jill

12

You’re bumping up next to the most crucial fact, imho. Put biological/scientific standards, there simply is no such thing as “race”. Homo sap is a species. Period. If I were to declare myself African-American, there is no scientific test in the world that could prove different. Hence, all of our affirmative actions, etc. are based on something that will not hold up in court. As a legal issue, that should be that.

It would be bitter medicine to swallow, but I believe, on that basis if no other, that we should legally refuse to recognise any such distinction. (Full disclosure: white, male, Texan. I already know its all my fault, I’ve been told).

13

elucidator

From a scientific viewpoint you’re right, and that’s why I marked the census the way I did. On the other hand, if it’s just going to be translated into “another white scientist with 'tude” I don’t need that, and I’m going to change it. Too bad I used a black ink pen.

rocks

14

Originally (on another thread) I said that the race question on the Census, and the argued reasons for its necessity, was deeply racists. Although it is true that poverty is poverty and it doesn’t need a color to define it futher and race is a social construct that has no basis in scientific fact, the truth is we live in the society that built this construct.

If we lived in a perfect world where people were hired on their own merits, stopped by police on the basis of their actions, were rented apartments based soley on their ability to pay the rent, then there would be no need for race to be mentioned at anytime on any government form. We do not live in a perfect world.

I would still like to put Race:Human on my Census form because this fake division of people has got to stop somewhere and why not with me? But I am ashamed that it is still needed in this country.

Puerto Rican, African-American, Native-American mutt, and proud of it.

15

I’m curious…I live in a primarily Black neighborhood in Newark, NJ, which has an exceptionally (to my eyes) large Black population.

During the last month, there has been an advertising blitz on TV, Radio, Newspapers, etc, admonishing the "poor, oppressed Black people (oops, African-Americans) to be sure to answer the census. That way “we” (the politicians) will get our share of federal money.

Does this happen in mexican, puerto rican, chinese, indonesian neighborhoods? How about white neighborhoods? Or are minorities specifically being targeted in order to ensure they are disproportionately represented, thus skewing monetary and political issues?

<unrelated gripe>
Why are they Whatever-Americans? Even though most of them and their parents have never even seen Whatever, let alone being from there…I HATE hyphenated-Americans. Just be American! Assimilate and quit complaining!!! Do people walk around saying “I’m an african brit. I’m a venezuelan australian. I’m a vietnamese ukranian”? I doubt it. they’re just brits, ausralians, ukranians

Joe Cool

American.
Of Mexican and Spanish descent, but just American.

16

The whole cultural diversity thing escapes me.

I’m from a very varied stock, German, Irish, Swedish, Dutch, English… About as varied as you can be and still have translucent skin. :slight_smile:

I don’t identify with any of these countries or their populations. Their cultures are just a bunch of silly acts that people do.

I’m Canadian, it’s where I was born, and it’s where I want to raise my kids. To me, this is better served by having everyone working together, not by having a bunch of different communities that occasionally interact.

I’m sure my culture, the social etiquette and rituals that Canadians in my area use is silly to outsiders. But that’s why I wouldn’t dream of wanting an outsider to practice it, unless they wanted to fit into this society.

If a culture does have something to offer, the idea of the melting pot is that those useful ideas will continue, because their practice is more than just meaningless ritual. To preserve a culture whole outside of its natural place, except for historical reasons, seems silly.

I think I’m free of racial (skin colour) prejudices. I don’t need to respect some silly ritual to respect a person. To me, you can be accepting and respectful without trying to emulate.

17

{{{And, for the most part, reasonable rationale and explanations (for why the Census collects this data) ignored!}}}—JillGat

In the light of recent events, I do not feel that I have the freedom to respond to this appropriately.

–Kalél
TheHungerSite.com
“If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.”
“Well, there was that thing with the Cheese-Wiz…but I’m feeling much better now!” – John Astin, Night Court

18

I notice they allow you, on the census, to check all races if you like. You just can’t check none. So I checked “other”, and where it said “print race”, I printed R-A-C-E. :slight_smile:

But I’m sure they’ve seen it all before. :rolleyes:

Your Quadell

19

Re. Census ad blitzes:

The Census is advertising everywhere pretty hard. The goal of the Census Bureau is to count every person once, without skipping people or double-counting them. They won’t acheive this goal, of course, but they’re trying. Ads are one method of doing so, in that the more people that send in Census forms on their own, the fewer enumerators the Census Bureau has to hire to go door to door. Since some enumerators will make $14/hour, it seems to me that the ads are a money SAVINGS, not a waste.

Mind you, local governments – cities, counties, and states – ARE doing extra promotion of the census in poor/minority areas. But this isn’t to give minorities “disproportionate representation” as stated by Joe_Cool. The poor and minorities, for one reason or another (ask the sociology people, not me), are generally more reluctant to fill out Census forms than middle-class people. Therefore, the local governments are trying to keep their poorer populations from being UNDERcounted, not to OVERcount them as Joe_Cool suggests.

I agree with a lot of people here that the race & ethnicity questions on the census form are troubling and potentially divisive. But advertising the census to minorities more intensely than to whites is a different matter entirely and IMHO justified.