Race relations in America-What can I do?

Great Debates
1

Inspired by this thread, and more specifically the last line of this post.
My background–

I am a 50ish Southern white male. My parents were what I would call passive racists. We were never taught there was anything wrong with blacks folks, really, but “nigger” was fairly common word. Not so funny story–one morning my mother told me to turn “turn down that nigger music”–it was Joe Cocker. As a child, I suppose I had sort of “Song of the South” view of black people.

I was in junior high school when busing was implemented, and the first black child was sent to our school. That’s right, one kid.

By the time I was in senior high school, there were a few more black kids. I become politically radical, and marched in peace marches and civil rights protests. I worked on the campaign for the first black to run for student body president (He won, too, but had his victory administratively overturned, more or less. No kidding.)

In my life I have argued, sometimes to the point of physical confrontation, for treatment of all people as human equals. I have lost jobs over this; and lovers as well.

I have also hired black people at a company where none had ever worked before, only to be called a racist by one of my hires for letting go a temp who was not doing the work. At this same company, I had defended a black man accused of sexual harasment by one of the white girls who did not like the way he looked at her. In a private meeting with the owner, where I was told his job was in jeapordy, I replied that if he went, I would as well.

I have been accused of racism by a man who did not like it that I had his car towed from blocking my driveway, even though I had absolutely no idea who the owner was.

In short, I have found myself in a world where my idealism has been dealt a possibly deadly blow; where my actions count for nothing and I am deemed a racist by default.

So my question is, what can I do, to paraphrase holmes, to learn the steps of the dance?

2

Which means, based on the above, that you are both a brave and a principled man.

I would assume, therefore, that you did what you did, not for praise, but because it was right.

It is not for you to ask to be taught. It would be better if the rest of the world asked if we could learn.

If you are truly fighting for justice, then nothing of what you have done has been wasted. And those who do not share your commitment are wrong, no matter what color they are.

If you did what you did because you wanted to be praised, you will be disappointed. If you did what you did, and continue to do it, in order that “justice might flow down like water, and righteousness like an everlasting stream”, then you will be rewarded in ways you cannot imagine.

A wise Man once said, “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied”. May you eat and drink your fill, and that very soon.

Regards,
Shodan

3

Contrapuntal, thanks for that bio sketch. It helps to know where you’re coming from, and if I may say, I applaud your moral choices toward the concept of treating all people equal. I want to respond before this thread goes south, as I suspect it will…

I’m an African American male (surprise!), and I study the effects of race on educational outcomes. I also do consulting work with organizations that are struggling to bring disparate groups together. Sort of like some of the things you did a generation ago. While I don’t feel that I am an “expert,” I do think I’ve had quite a lot of experience “dancing.”

I have a couple of suggestions:

  1. Beverly Daniel Tatum and Peggy McIntosh, two anti-racist educators, have remarked on the absence of anti-racist role models for Whites. Names like Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, and Morris Dees are not generally known to most people outside of the legal and civil rights community, and others who have worked for the betterment of race relations are not necessarily identified by those works (Harris Wofford and Dorothy Parker come to mind). By sharing your experience with others, especially young people and specifically young White people (males need this the most, IMHO) - you can help them envision being an ally to others.

  2. Understanding the caustic effects of racism, classism, and poverty, which all too often work in concert in limiting the opportunities and life chances of people of color in this country. So often, here in the SDMB and in RL, I encounter wonderfully intelligent people who immediately suspend their intelligence and argue that the effects of those -isms - specifically RACISM - are no longer present, or are severely diminished. I’m not going to argue that considerable progress in curtailing the effects of racism has not been made since 1965, but I’m not drinking the Kool-Aid that certain segments of society are serving that says “racism is dead.” Oh, it’s alive, and has evolved in a subtler form. Do some people overstate the impact of racism in their lives? I imagine so. But perhaps that’s because so many people - who are often White, but not exclusively - immediately discount the role of racism in their lives. Terms like “playing the race card” are absolutely inflammatory to me because it totally trivializes lived experiences by those who are privileged and do not live those experiences.

I know some people say, “When I hear someone mention race as a reason why something didn’t happen, I automatically go on the defensive.” I’d like more people to pause and actually try to understand if race is at least a plausible explanation for the problem. There’s two suggestions.

I’m also up to hearing what others think we all can do, not just White men.

4

The thing about calling someone a racist is, it’s pretty much the last insult that still really, genuinely insults people. If the guy blocking your driveway had called you a dickhead, would you be in here arguing that your head does not, in fact, look anything like a penis? Of course not. You might react to the hostility behind the comment, and get angry at that, but you wouldn’t be worrying about the content of the insult, only the motivations behind it. You need to react to being called a racist the same way. Don’t take it any more seriously than any other random curse word. Don’t try to defend or justify yourself. That just tells him that his insults are working. You know you’re not a racist, and the other guy doesn’t really care if you’re a racist. He just wants to get under your skin. Don’t let him. He calls you a racist, call him an asshole. Anyone who knows you, will know better than to pay attention to what he says. Odds are, anyone who knows him knows the same thing.

Mind, I’m not defending the use of “racist” as a general purpose insult for anyone who pisses you off. There are still enough real racists out there that we shouldn’t be diluting the word by using it willy-nilly.

5

Don’t want to pass up a possibly-once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to agree with Shodan, so allow me to chime in with a “Hear, hear!” :slight_smile:

Face it, we live in what is still in many ways and for many people a racist society. Under such circumstances, a lot of people are going to be unjustly accused of racism now and then. (In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if everybody has been unjustly accused of racism at least once, except maybe for those who never actually interact with anybody of a different race, and those who can’t be accused unjustly because they really are racist.)

So if you are looking for some kind of magical “dance step” that will be absolutely effective in proclaiming your non-racism and ensure that you’ll never again be unjustly accused, I’m afraid you’re probably out of luck. Hippy Hollow offers what sound like good suggestions for helping raise awareness about racism and how it’s handled. Ultimately, the only practical solution is just to go on fighting racism, and shrug your shoulders when somebody misjudges you.

By the way, I’m confused by your comment that your “idealism has been dealt a possibly deadly blow”. Surely you aren’t suggesting that you’re considering giving up on your principled policy of being resolutely non-racist, just because some people have misjudged you or accused you unjustly? Even if you’re understandably bummed out about being misjudged and falsely accused, would you really be happier actually being a racist? I doubt it.

(P.S. Apropos of verbal usages that can lead to misperceptions, I’d just note that it’s generally preferable not to speak of “one of the white girls” (as compared to “a black man”). Unless the female employee was actually a minor, it is always proper, and safest, to use the term “woman” rather than “girl” when speaking of female colleagues or employees in the presence of strangers. Note that I am not accusing you of being sexist! :slight_smile: Merely pointing out another of those “awareness issues”.)

6

Thanks for the responses everyone (holmes, where are ya buddy? I started this for you.)

Shodan, thanks for the kind words. I assure my actions were not motivated by praise. In fact, I have only told this story to a few people.

Hippy Hollow, thanks for the suggestions. I also agree that racism is alive and well, although you and I might slightly different definitions. Would you agree with me that calling racism where none exists only hinders its eventual eradication?

Miller, I agree that getting angry is counter productive. I was angry that the idiot would park in such a way as to totally block my driveway when there were plenty of spaces on the street, and treat me like I was the asshole. I was depressed that a charge of racism was the first thing that came to his mind. When I asked him how I was supposed to know that the driver of the car was black he replied that I could probably tell by looking in it. Draw your own conclusions from that piece of reasoning.

Kimstu, good call on the "white girls’ comment. Let me tell you why I thought of her as a juvenile. She was a slender woman in her mid-twenties with long red hair and really large breasts. She would wear Daisy Dukes with a halter top that left nothing to the imagination and walk around barefoot. Everytime she would step into the warehouse the door would slam, we would look up, and there she would be in all her pin-up glory. She then had the nerve to accuse one of the black guys of “looking at her funny.”

What I meant about my idealism being dealt a blow was just my belief that the dream of my youth (racial equality) seems further away then ever and now I’m the bad guy to kids who weren’t even born when I was marching in the streets.

7

Oh, I totally see where you’re coming from on that—if a young woman acts immature, it’s natural to think of her as a “girl”. (And sexually attractive and provocative young women in particular are frequently called “girls”—“chorus girls”, “live nude girls”, etc.) That’s why I emphasized that I wasn’t calling you a sexist, just pointing out that those are the sorts of things that can fuel inaccurate perceptions of sexism, esp. when other people don’t know the background.

But hell, look how far we’ve come in some ways! When you were marching in the streets, or a few years before that, a black man accused by a young white co-worker of sexual harassment didn’t just risk losing his job, he often risked being jailed and maybe lynched. In some areas, a black man who blocked a white neighbor’s driveway would get threats or even a beating, not just have his car towed.

Some people still remember those dangers very vividly, or have heard about them from older relatives, and it’s no wonder if many are still resentful and suspicious. Yes, it’s wrong and unfair and counterproductive to take that resentment out on people like you who are doing no harm, and I don’t excuse it. But still, think how much better it is to live in a society where a black neighbor flies off the handle and unfairly accuses you of racism than to live in a society where a black neighbor would never dare accuse you of anything, fairly or not, because if he did the racists would come after him.

Your actions have helped to further your dream, so don’t despair. It’s just that, like fighting ignorance, eradicating racism is taking longer than we thought. Never give up.

8

Sorry, I was finishing off a thought in the thread that spawned it. I’m running out, but will contribute. Hopefully it won’t be too much of a trainwreck before I pop in again.

Geez, I can’t believe I agree with Shodan too… a little common ground, huh?

Funny ol’ world, isn’t it?

9

You lead by example and hope others follow (which, to date, is exactly what you’ve done). The dance is already yours.

10

Yeah, holmes, there’s more important stuff going on now. Come back when you have the time.

11

I guess I take the perspective that outcomes often have multiple causes. Kimstu said it quite well earlier - one person’s attitude can’t dissuade you from following your moral compass. One of the things I say to my clients is that creating an -ism free environment means taking individual and collective risks on a daily basis. Trust me, there are people of color who harbor racist and prejudicial opinions of their own ethnic group, and of Whites. I say if you’ve considered the facts, and you come to the conclusion that you responded and acted appropriately, you and the person who called you “racist” obviously disagree. If it’s worth your time and effort, I think you might say, “I am really hurt that you think my actions are racist. Can you explain to me why you made that statement?” There could be an opportunity for growth there, or you may find the person is a fool…

I just think that racism, like classism, homophobia, ableism, and sexism, is part of the air that we all breathe and we are all infected to a degree. I know I say and do things on a regular basis, on further examination I see as privileging my membership in a group at the expense of others. Obviously I try not to do these things, but I also don’t feel I’m a bad human being because I have. I just try to do better and look at each experience as a way to grow.

So in a roundabout way, to respond to your question - I actually think the idea that racism is so pervasive in our culture that any time someone mentions that it is an issue, it needs to be investigated. I think we are all capable of saying and doing things that inadvertently prejudge and classify others in a damaging way, and that it is not always a malicious or intended action. I also think that some people can assume the worst from an exchange and bandy a term like “racist” about, which ultimately shuts down dialogue.

I’m sure I have other thoughts about this, but I have to run for now… Good question.

12

I guess our definitions of racism are not that different. Bad on me for presuming to know what you think.

13

I’ve just been a long drawn out discussion in another thread with another Doper parsing the difference between actual racism and bigotry.

As usual, my fine-hair splitting has alienated another Doper.

14

Actually, this is something of a new development for me. I used to say that African Americans by definition could not be racist, because racism is prejudice plus socioeconomic or political power. Racism implies that you are able to prejudge someone on the basis of their skin color, and you have the ability to negatively affect someone’s life chances due to this belief. I’ve encountered people of color - Black, Asian, Latino - who certainly prejudge and use the means they have at their disposal to disadvantage others because of their national origin, social class, skin color. (Encountering this was very upsetting to me.) While people of color typically have much less socioeconomic, political, and policy-making power compared to Whites, I can think of many examples of situations in which I have seen a person of color negatively affect another person of color’s life chances. (Unfortunately, it often involves law enforcement or educators…)

So I do think racism can exist among those who are often its victims. But I also think that the effects of racism from those who hold socioeconomic or political power, and shape policy, is inherently more damaging than those who do not. In other words, if I had a “anti-racism shot” with only one dose, I would prick the college-educated White male who may one day sit on a school board, or decide where to place a toxic waste dump over the high-school educated Latina who, because of racism, never gets the opportunity to employ her racist beliefs with any significant impact. Does that make sense?

White privilege further compounds White racism, giving it a particular virulence.

Askia, I don’t disagree with your well-outlined definition of racism, but I think I call it White supremacy.

15

It makes perfect sense. I would never attempt to equate the effects of white racism towards people of color with other versions of racism that exist in America. What our country sanctioned during the slavery years, and through the Jim Crow years, and to a lesser extent up to today, is arguably the deepest stain on our national character, and almost certainly the cause of our greatest griefs. We may call ourselves the United States, but until we are united as a people we will be never be able to realize our ideals.

Having said that, I object when the bar to test for racism by whites is set so much lower than the bar for racism against whites. In my inarticulate way I was trying to make that point in my OP. When I objected to my supervisors at the job I mentioned that I had been accused of racism and wanted to confront the accusation, I was expressly forbidden to do so. Even though there had been complaints because I had hired “them,” I must do nothing to offend “them.” In my old fire breathing radical days I would have ignored the prohibition and called a meeting to tell everyone just who the racists were in the company. I would have provided my bona fides and dared anyone to call me racist to my face. As it was, I resigned and moved on.

16

From 1989 to 1992, I attended a predominantly-black university to get my master’s degree in education. I had fairly good experiences with blacks up to that point in my life (my late twenties). I had to endure quite a bit of racial bullying at that place. People would come up to me and say things like “You don’t belong here!” and “Whites should not be taking classes here; I enrolled here to get away from people like you!” There was this rather large, muscular fellow who would go out of his way to “bump into” me in the hallways. Another white student told me the guy did the same to him.
In classes, if you took the conservative viewpoint about any topic, somebody would call you a racist. If you disagreed with 1 percent of what a black student said, you would be called “racist”. One guy told me that he thought that all whites were inherently racist; however,no black could possibly be racist. Another black student once told me, “I am only concerned about white-on-black and black-on-black crime. Black-on-white crime is completely understandable – how can a black actually steal any thing from a white? Everything was taken from us. Black-on-white crime is just payback or just desserts!”
Also, two of my best friends when I was growing up (both white) moved into predominantly-minority neighborhoods. They were eventually forced to move out after being bullied and harrassed, mostly because the blacks and hispanics did not want whites in “their” neighborhoods!
My take on all this? Racists, bullies, and cowards come in all colors. Blacks and hispanics regularly use the word “racist” to intimidate and make whites feel guilty. (I am certainly not denying that there are plenty of white jerks and racists , of course!)
We need to get past this groveling, simpering attitude just because somebody has used the “R” word in our general direction. Most of the time nowadays, it is just a diversionary tactic, or an attempt to “guilt-trip” us into submission!

17

I, too, am a white person that feels strongly about racism that has been in turn accused of racism. I’d be lying if I said it didn’t bother me, but I try to keep perspective on it. As a leader, lots of people have taken various potshots at me because they were being criticized for their behavior or performance. Race is only one of those things. Long story short, I’m still here! I just conduct myself professionally and honestly, and (since I have management that’s reasonable in this respect) I’m fine.

If I worked in an environment where I was criticized for treating people equally, I’d be resigning too. I don’t even know if it’s principle or the fact that I know I just wouldn’t be able to stand it. I will not do something that’s unethical for any company.

18

Sometimes a racist is a racist, but more often these days, a racist is anyone winning an argument with a liberal. It’s the liberal equivalent of conservatives calling people commies back in the fifties. After a while, the general public starts to wise up, and the word loses its meaning, which is too bad, because there really are racists out there, just as there really were commies out there in the fifties.

19

Well, I dont consider you an idealist, and I think you are selling yourself short by calling yourself one. If you thought that black people and white people were fundamentally different sub-species of human beings or some such crap, but that treating black people bad was morally wrong, that would make you an idealist in my book as well as still a fucking racist.

Idealism, like racism, is based on nothing but ‘beliefs’. Pretty weak flooring to be standing on.

When it somes to racism, one doesnt need to rely on the flimsy foundation of beliefs or morality. We know now through genetics that the old conventional view was wrong; there are no sub-species of the human race. What there are are genetic attributes shared within groups whos ancestors inhabited the same geographical area, and those genetic attributes are often determined by geography that very same geography. What this means is that yes, genetically, black people are different than white people and vice versa. But black people are also genetically different from each other, and white people are genetically different from each other (there is a greater genetic difference between individuals within all groupings than there is between the groups themselves).

In other words, if we use the genetic definition of race, my ancestors who lived in one valley for thousands of years are a different race than the ancestors of someone whos ancestors lived in a valley on the other side of the mountain range…regardless of skin color. Since genetically, ‘race’ just means a shared grouping of genes within a certain population, then every two families from different parts of the world are literally two different races; all a family is is a shared grouping of genetic traits. It becomes arbitrary as to what genetic groupings one is looking at. We could consider everyone whos ancestors lived at an elevation over 5000 ft as a ‘race’, since all decendants of such people will show similar genetic traits, regardless of skin color. We could consider people with webbed feet a different ‘race’ regardless of skin color, etc etc.

To pick skin color as a primary genetic attribute to group people into is arbitrary. It is only one of the many many genetic groupings we all fit into; it is only one of the many many genetic groupings that could be labeled a seperate ‘race’, if ones intention was to divide.

So it doesnt take anything as flimsy as idealism or idealogy or morality to know that racism is just so much social bigotry and social perception, which is the same as saying that racism is just so much bullshit. There are plenty of people who consider themselves non-racist and then say shit like ‘oh those poor black people, why doesnt someone help them’. Like I said, if you really do think black people are somehow fundamentally different than white people (I dont get the impression you think that), then youre still a racist fucking idiot even if you go out of your way to hire black people because of your morality or ideology. You say you hired black people at a company where none had worked before; were they qualified and happened to be black, or did you hire them expressly ~because~ they were black?

There is never going to be any external validation. If you hire someone qualified who is black, and your competitor is a racist fuck who wont hire blacks, your validation will occur when your competitor goes out of business because he thought adhering to social bigotries was more important than having a successful business. I mean, racism is just the ultimate cutting-oneself-off from knowing and getting to know people who will probably bring something new to your life that you can use to your own benefit, and whom maybe you can benefit as well.

Its just plain goddamn irrational to limit your ability to pursue your self interest because of some irrelevant and superficial thing as social attitudes or opinions. Black people come up with ideas and create things just like everyone else.

20

I honestly don’t get the point of Voodochile’s post but let me take the opportunity to clear a few things up.

The OP was in direct response to the linked post. It was not meant to be a comment on anything other than the nuts and bolts process of easing racial strife, and what part I might play.

I also believe that there is only one race, the human race. Having said that, I think we can also agree that ‘racism’ exists.

I provided a thumbnail sketch of myself for identification purposes only, not to provide justification for anything, or to rationalize anything.

I had hoped that holmes and Askia, two fellows whom I respect and have jousted with in the past, would have some helpful comments, but it appears that is not to be the case.

Thanks to all who did chime in with advice.
Mods, lock this if you want. It appears to be dead.