Why? De jure, black people had the vote after the civil war. De jure, black people have been completely equal since 1964. What, is 50 years not enough? Or is de facto racism that continues to this day still important?
Yes absolutely
For example…?(not doubting you, but a cite would strengthen the claim).
If the idea is just to stabilize the patient then I think we can get rid of affirmative action entirely.
I thought you were saying that we have to try and get African Americans up to where whites are.
Once again, how the hell does that translate into 'lets ignore the effects of bigotry" I can see how it translates to “we will no longer be able to do stuff that is race based because it will become illegal so lets find another way”
And there are a LOT of causes of inequality. Some of them are perfectly acceptable because we are not all equal. But I don’t think equality of result is what we should be striving for.
There are a lot of places it can come from:
culture
expectations
immigration patterns
racism
probably a half dozen other things I haven’t thought of
But the notion that racism is responsible for all differences between races seems like a race-centric notion.
How did Asians close the gap with whites? Did white people suddenly stop being racist against Asians? Are Asians doing better than whites because everyone is treating Asians so well? If so, why did they start treating Asians so well?
I think we’ve been over this before – self-selected immigrant groups from relatively far away, like (in America) Jews, Asians, Nigerians, etc., are generally the best and brightest of their home countries and regions – those with the means, drive, and abilities to make the long and costly journey – and it’s no surprise that they tend to, statistically, achieve highly. Groups that are not self-selected – Native Americans and African Americans being the most prominent examples – generally have significantly lower statistical levels of achievement. Especially if they’ve been historically brutalized. It should be absolutely no surprise to anyone that those groups with the least choice in their arrival/forced migration into (or around) the US, and those groups that were treated by far the worst by government, society, and institutions, (Native Americans and African Americans) are generally at the bottom of various statistical indicators.
Who here is saying that racism is responsible for all the differences between races?
Joe Arpaio was under Federal court orders to end his racial profiling of Hispanics for immigration enforcement. The cases that led to those orders were generally related to his deputies pulling people over for being Hispanic.
Good example.
I thought Affirmative Action meant to remedy past injustices not to counter the fact that bigots exist.
Lets imagine a world where we never had slavery or jim crow. The laws were always the way they are now, prohibiting discrimination by the government, employers and schools BUT bigotry against blacks still existed. This is the world that the children of African immigrants are born into. Would we have AA in that world? Should we?
Is it hard to be black in this country? Yes, a lot harder than being white. Harder than being Asian. This country owes a debt to the descendants of slaves and American Indians that it does not owe to the children of African immigrants.
Yes. Past and present injustices.
What are the present injustices, and how might they be alleviated?
What made you think this?
It’s meant to remedy present injustice as well.
That would be based on a very faulty premise; that black people who aren’t the descendants of slaves are somehow not affected by racism.
Racism is not something that stopped happening in 1865. Or 1954. Or 1964. Or 2008.
No problem with this. As long as the studies are followed by genuine and prompt action.
We can say we’re done when we are done. We can stop when racism is gone. Not every single racist incident but the general pattern of racism. That may sound like I’m asking for the impossible. But I don’t believe that. In my own lifetime, I’ve seen a huge decrease in racism. We’re winning this fight (and maybe that’s what’s bothering some people). In my more hopeful moments, I like to think that the Trump administration is just racism making its last stand.
Oh yes, definitely.
Can you tell me what cite and/or metric you are using to determine your answer?
What de facto discrimination continues today?
Its not in college admissions.
Its not in government contracting.
Yes, we have been over this before and I brought up Vietnamese refugees and I was met with claims that the refugees came over with gold bars stuck down their pants.
At some point you have to stop making excuses for the underachievement of the black community and take a look at they black community to see what they might be doing wrong.
k9bfreiender. It was right there in the post you just quoted.
They are being discriminated against in the college admissions process. The solution would be to stop discriminating against them.