Racialism: Everyone's Favorite Politics

[Huey_Freeman]

@Czarcasm

Racists are targeting a specific groups of people, and the solution is to just say “What groups of people? I don’t see any groups of people!”, and the problem just disappears?

You have (perhaps unwittingly) described the ideology of individualism; one of the three bedrocks of white supremacy in this country. Listen, let me tell ya’ll white liberals something. White folks are willing to come to the table if, and only if, you’re willing to renounce social justice, inclusion, diversity, and other multicultural issues. That’s it. You do that, the war is over. Praise be! White folks will even allow you to have Roe - Maybe. Have you noticed when white folks scream about political correctness, they’re not talking about cheerfully referring their retarded kid as an Aspie, special needs, or developmentally disabled. They like that political correctness. A lot. Because they know someone who is white and is developmentally disabled. But the moment that political correctness is extended on people on who don’t look like them, white folks racism bubbles up in a nimbus of fiery orange light straight out of Dragonball Z (anime alert).

[Czarcasm]

@Damuri_Ajashi

So you have no idea why you are trying to tear down Asian success and excuse the lack of success in the black community. Perhaps it racism.

Perhaps he realizes that answering “When did you stop beating your wife?” type questions is a fool’s errand. When you want to discuss what is being said using the words that are being said, let me know.

[Czarcasm]

@Huey_Freeman

You have (perhaps unwittingly) described the ideology of individualism; one of the three bedrocks of white supremacy in this country. Listen, let me tell ya’ll white liberals something. White folks are willing to come to the table if, and only if, you’re willing to renounce social justice, inclusion, diversity, and other multicultural issues. That’s it. You do that, the war is over. Praise be! White folks will even allow you to have Roe - Maybe. Have you noticed when white folks scream about political correctness, they’re not talking about cheerfully referring their retarded kid as an Aspie, special needs, or developmentally disabled. They like that political correctness. A lot. Because they know someone who is white and is developmentally disabled. But the moment that political correctness is extended on people on who don’t look like them, white folks racism bubbles up in a nimbus of fiery orange light straight out of Dragonball Z (anime alert).

1. If I said something, it wasn’t said unwittingly.
2. I don’t know your background, and you certainly don’t know mine. If I tell you what I think, I would appreciate it if you didn’t try to tie it into these white stereotypes you like to hound on. I am no more a spokesperson for whatever race/religion/group you think I belong to then you are a spokesperson for African-Americans(we have a few others here, btw). I will listen to, and respect, your opinions for the thought and effort you put into them.

[iiandyiiii]

@Damuri_Ajashi

“The Vietnamese refugees with the means and abilities and drive to make a very difficult journey made the journey. Those without the means and abilities and drive did not. This is just a fact.”

You didn’t merely say that the refugees that made it here were the ones that were able to make it here, merely the ones that had the opportunity. You applied qualitative factors to the refugees. They had means, ability and drive. I keep asking for a cite for this “fact” and you keep asking me to point out what I disagree with.

You are saying that the Vietnamese refugees were a select group of people selected out of the general population of Vietnam. They were wealthier, more able and more determined than Vietnamese. So please provide a cite.

I’m saying that the ones that made it here were the ones that were able to make it here. And that the circumstances were entirely different from, and thus entirely uncomparable to, the circumstances in which black people and native Americans faced.

It doesn’t REQUIRE I use the word toxic but I believe that toxic is the best descriptor for an environment that does this to its inhabitants. You are basically getting offended because I dare to use the word toxic in the same sentence as the word black. No one is forcing black women to have children as teenagers. No one is forcing them to have kids out of wedlock. No one is forcing the men to abandon their responsibilities. No one is forcing them to have high rates of criminal violence. No one is forcing them to place such a low value on education. These are things that they can change no matter how much white people hate them. But they don’t because some people (perhaps people like you) keep telling them that nothing is their fault.

Sure racism plays a role and perhaps racism is why the culture is the way it is. But at some point self determination has to become a factor. I think your excuse making is much more harmful than me pointing out that many of the problems in the black community are not being forced on them but are the result of a toxic culture. You are telling the black community that they can’t do it on their own and they need white people like you to lift them up out of darkness into the light because they cannot do it on their own, because the racism is too overpowering.

@Damuri_Ajashi

I thought it was pretty clear that when I said black culture, I was talking about black culture and not black people. For example, at various points, I mention how racism penalized academic focus in the black community and that might be informing the low value black culture seems to place on education. I don’t know how you fight this but I do know that placing a low value on education is toxic.

I don’t see the need to give offense unnecessarily, so what terms to academics and professionals use to describe the toxic elements of black culture? I think toxic is a very appropriate word to describe its effects but if academic and professionals using some other word, can you point me in the right direction? If the word is descriptive of the problem I see, I will use it to spare your feelings. But I got the impression that you don’t really approve of anything that might be critical of anything related to black people.

This stuff is just so disgusting I don’t know how to respond. I don’t know why you insist on casting aspersions on the culture and community of all black people. But you do. That’s within yourself – the desire and need to shit on and blame all black people, not just those that do bad things. Not just the ones who make bad decisions, but the ones who don’t – somehow you’re saying that they’re still at fault by nature of being black, because their culture/community is “toxic”, you say. It doesn’t matter that so many black parents put education above all – because some don’t, that’s still their fault, because of the color of their skin.

I’ll say bullshit, and that it’s revolting, and I’m not interested in hearing you go on and on about the inferiority of the culture and community of all black people in America. It’s nothing new – so many Americans just so happen to believe that their own community and culture is superior to others (with blacks so often at the bottom) – but it’s no less disgusting for being so common.

I don’t approve of anything that casts aspersions and blame so widely – your shotgun rhetoric shits on every single black American, just for the color of their skin. They deserve blame because they’re black, you’re saying, and they personally bear the responsibility to fix their “toxic” culture and comunity, even when they’ve done nothing wrong at all.

You’re choosing this sort of rhetoric, when you don’t have to, even when I’ve explained this to you time and time again. Which is why I think these feelings are so deep-seated within you. Any positive stories of black communities, like the prosperity and relative peacefulness of Prince George’s County, MD, are “abberations”, irrelevant to the larger discussions, according to words you’ve used before. When we should see them as stories that prove black American culture and community can be so positive. They’re just as authentically black as single moms and gang members. But you choose to describe them as “abberations”, not as good examples and great success stories of how positive black communities can be.

This kind of contempt that you continuously demonstrate sickens me.

[nelliebly]

@Damuri_Ajashi

It doesn’t REQUIRE I use the word toxic but I believe that toxic is the best descriptor for an environment that does this to its inhabitants. You are basically getting offended because I dare to use the word toxic in the same sentence as the word black. No one is forcing black women to have children as teenagers. No one is forcing them to have kids out of wedlock. No one is forcing the men to abandon their responsibilities. No one is forcing them to have high rates of criminal violence. No one is forcing them to place such a low value on education. These are things that they can change no matter how much white people hate them. But they don’t because some people (perhaps people like you) keep telling them that nothing is their fault.
Sure racism plays a role and perhaps racism is why the culture is the way it is. But at some point self determination has to become a factor. I think your excuse making is much more harmful than me pointing out that many of the problems in the black community are not being forced on them but are the result of a toxic culture. You are telling the black community that they can’t do it on their own and they need white people like you to lift them up out of darkness into the light because they cannot do it on their own, because the racism is too overpowering.

Racism can be not only subtle but disingenuous. All of the issues you cite as typical of “black culture” and “black communities” are actually a consequence of generational poverty and long-term racism. Let’s take that 2 point deviation you keep bringing up. Funding for public education largely comes from property taxes. Poorer areas generate lower property taxes, and schools receive less funding. Higher poverty rates are also associated with less access to quality healthcare and less access to contraceptives. If you’re about to say nobody is forcing Black teenage girls to have sex, I’ll remind you that teens of all ethnicities have sex; the difference is that some have easier access to contraceptives than others.

You keep arguing that white liberals are racist while discounting the racism in your own assumptions, including

• that all Blacks belong to a single, monolithic Black Community
• that those in Black communities have not been advocating for better education, better employment opportunities, and solutions to other social issues but have been sitting around waiting for whites to do that for them. In fact, dozens of organizations rooted in Black communities have been fighting for those things for over a century.
• that there’s little or no effort to pull oneself up by one’s own bootstraps, which is incorrect and a racist assumption.
• that the myth of the “model minority” is real. It’s not.

In actuality, there are wide disparities among Asian Americans: An empirical literature review[41][42] shows that most of the existing data used to justify the model minority image with Asian American academic achievement is aggregated and as a result, ignores important differences among individual Asian ethnic groups. Although many Asian Americans have succeeded academically and socioeconomically, survey research have shown that more recently immigrant groups, such as Southeast Asians, have been unable to replicate such success.[43] According to the U.S. Census in 2000, the overall U.S. population for people 25 years and over with less than a high school education was 19.6% and Asian Americans were close at 19.4%; however, disparities exist when comparing South and East Asian Americans with Southeast Asian Americans. Only 12.5% of Chinese Americans, 8.6% of Japanese Americans, and 14.6% of South Asian Americans that are 25 years or over have less than a high school education.[41] In contrast, Southeast Asian Americans more than double South and East Asian American percentages with 52% of Cambodian Americans, 59% of Hmong Americans, 49% of Lao Americans, and 38% of Vietnamese Americans ages 25 and over have less than a high school education.

[Shodan]

Maybe it would help if, instead of “toxic black culture”, we can use “blackness”. Just as “whiteness” isn’t aimed at everybody, or any specific individuals or groups, but still apparently affects subcultures in America, “blackness” is equally un-specific.

Regards,
Shodan

[Huey_Freeman]

@Kennedy1960

…You act is if your race is immune to internal problems, but isn’t. Every single race has its own faults, mine and yours included.

Not at all. The difference is that black people aren’t concerned about the issues of white folks. It’s white folks who are obsessed in finding faults with black folks. Ya’ll even got a cute cartoon about black people ya’ll made at Prager U entitled “The Top 5 Issues Facing Black Americans”. So obsessed, it should be a perfume.

[Czarcasm]

@Huey_Freeman

Not at all. The difference is that black people aren’t concerned about the issues of white folks. It’s white folks who are obsessed in finding faults with black folks.

Sooooo…You have no issues with the faults of “white folk”? :rolleyes:

[Huey_Freeman]

@Damuri_Ajashi

… No one is forcing them to place such a low value on education…

LOL
LOL
LOL

Kuchiyose no Jutsu

Take it from here, Government.

(emphasis mine)

@U.S Government

At the associate’s degree level, the number of degrees awarded to Hispanic students more than doubled between academic years 2003–04 and 2013–14 (a 131 percent increase, from 72,300 to 167,100), and the number of degrees earned by Black students increased by 66 percent (from 81,200 to 134,500). During this period, the number of associate’s degrees awarded increased by 52 percent for Asian/Pacific Islander students (from 33,100 to 50,300), by 32 percent for White students (from 456,000 to 601,400), and by 27 percent by American Indian/Alaska Native students (from 8,100 to 10,300). As a result of the changes over this period, the share of all associate’s degrees awarded to Hispanic students increased from 11 to 17 percent, and the share earned by Black students increased from 12 to 14 percent. In contrast, the share of associate’s degrees earned by White students over the same period decreased from 70 to 61 percent. In both 2003–04 and 2013–14, the share of associate’s degrees earned by Asian/Pacific Islander students was 5 percent, and the share earned by American Indian/Alaska Native was 1 percent.

Across racial/ethnic groups, larger shares of undergraduate degrees and certificates were awarded to** female students than to male students in academic year 2013–14. For example, the shares of bachelor’s degrees earned by female students were 64 percent for Black students, 61 percent for American Indian/Alaska Native students, 60 percent for Hispanic students and students of Two or more races,1 56 percent for White students, and 55 percent for Asian/Pacific Islander students**.

Find it funny that white folk be like “lol, you don’t care about education” but it’s white folks who have declining educational achievement. Wasn’t it so bad that a bunch of white women (Blessed Be the Fruit, amirite?) were marching in the streets to get funding for their dilapidated schools? But blacks don’t care about education? lol, dude, you’re killin’ me. White folks - the same people who split the fucking atom - have abandoned facts, evidence, and science to wander in the dark forests of ignorance and equivocation. It is a crying shame. Projection at it’s finest.

[Huey_Freeman]

@Shodan

Maybe it would help if, instead of “toxic black culture”, we can use “blackness”. Just as “whiteness” isn’t aimed at everybody, or any specific individuals or groups, but still apparently affects subcultures in America, “blackness” is equally un-specific.

Regards,
Shodan

You can, except one is an existential threat to the country, while the other is not.

[Velocity]

Let’s just summarize it up; black = right and white = wrong, am I right?

[RTFirefly]

@Velocity

Let’s just summarize it up; black = right and white = wrong, am I right?

Unless I’ve totally misjudged your race, this is a self-disproving statement.

[Kennedy1960]

@Huey_Freeman

You have (perhaps unwittingly) described the ideology of individualism; one of the three bedrocks of white supremacy in this country. Listen, let me tell ya’ll white liberals something. White folks are willing to come to the table if, and only if, you’re willing to renounce social justice, inclusion, diversity, and other multicultural issues. That’s it. You do that, the war is over. Praise be! White folks will even allow you to have Roe - Maybe. Have you noticed when white folks scream about political correctness, they’re not talking about cheerfully referring their retarded kid as an Aspie, special needs, or developmentally disabled. They like that political correctness. A lot. Because they know someone who is white and is developmentally disabled. But the moment that political correctness is extended on people on who don’t look like them, white folks racism bubbles up in a nimbus of fiery orange light straight out of Dragonball Z (anime alert).

Are there any white people you actually like?

[MrDibble]

@Damuri_Ajashi

I asked how Asians were able to succeed in the face of racism and you said because of the Vietnam war.

No, I didn’t. I addressed the part I addressed, only.

I am pointing out that the success preceded the end of the Vietnam war so the absence of racism doesn’t seem to be the reason for Asian academic success.

I wasn’t addressing their success, merely White acknowledgement of same.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@Czarcasm

Perhaps he realizes that answering “When did you stop beating your wife?” type questions is a fool’s errand. When you want to discuss what is being said using the words that are being said, let me know.

Come back when you have an argument. Anything rational or logical will do.

[Czarcasm]

@Damuri_Ajashi

Come back when you have an argument. Anything rational or logical will do.

I reserve the use of rational and/or logical answers for rational and/or logical problems. “Racialism” as used in this thread’s context is nothing more than people saying “No, you!” when accused of being racists.

[WillFarnaby]

@Huey_Freeman

You have (perhaps unwittingly) described the ideology of individualism; one of the three bedrocks of white supremacy in this country. Listen, let me tell ya’ll white liberals something. White folks are willing to come to the table if, and only if, you’re willing to renounce social justice, inclusion, diversity, and other multicultural issues. That’s it. You do that, the war is over. Praise be! White folks will even allow you to have Roe - Maybe. Have you noticed when white folks scream about political correctness, they’re not talking about cheerfully referring their retarded kid as an Aspie, special needs, or developmentally disabled. They like that political correctness. A lot. Because they know someone who is white and is developmentally disabled. But the moment that political correctness is extended on people on who don’t look like them, white folks racism bubbles up in a nimbus of fiery orange light straight out of Dragonball Z (anime alert).

Individualism: bedrock of white supremacy

Flesh that out for all the gods and earths.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@iiandyiiii

I’m saying that the ones that made it here were the ones that were able to make it here. And that the circumstances were entirely different from, and thus entirely uncomparable to, the circumstances in which black people and native Americans faced.

To retrace the timeline of this argument:

K9Bfriender asked where racial inequality came from if not from racism. I gave a few examples and said that if racism so overwhelming and explains everything then how did asians close the gap with whites.

Here you interject that its because asians are self selected.

I point to the vietnamese refugees and you say that there was selection there too because only those with means drive and ability were able to come here. This is not the typical profile of refugee groups. They are generally seen as a cross section of the source population. So I asked for a cite that there was some superior quality to the vietnamese refugees.

You go on to say that we cannot compare immigrant groups with blacks because of slavery and american indians because of genocide. This is history and we will never be able to change this history, how long is this going to be a dispositive factor in every conversation about race?

This stuff is just so disgusting I don’t know how to respond. I don’t know why you insist on casting aspersions on the culture and community of all black people. But you do. That’s within yourself – the desire and need to shit on and blame all black people, not just those that do bad things. Not just the ones who make bad decisions, but the ones who don’t – somehow you’re saying that they’re still at fault by nature of being black, because their culture/community is “toxic”, you say. It doesn’t matter that so many black parents put education above all – because some don’t, that’s still their fault, because of the color of their skin.

Of course its not by virtue of the color of their skin. There are plenty of non-toxic black cultures all over the world. But here, in this country, there are toxic elements to black culture.

Not every family is affected by it but how do you explain the rate of teen pregnancy.

How do you explain the rate of unwed motherhood?

How do you explain the rate of violent crime?

These are facts, not opinions.

I’ll say bullshit, and that it’s revolting, and I’m not interested in hearing you go on and on about the inferiority of the culture and community of all black people in America.

So you think I am making a statement about every black individual in america? I don’t know if you are being intentionally obtuse or looking for reasons to be offended.

It’s nothing new – so many Americans just so happen to believe that their own community and culture is superior to others (with blacks so often at the bottom) – but it’s no less disgusting for being so common.

I don’t approve of anything that casts aspersions and blame so widely – your shotgun rhetoric shits on every single black American, just for the color of their skin. They deserve blame because they’re black, you’re saying, and they personally bear the responsibility to fix their “toxic” culture and comunity, even when they’ve done nothing wrong at all.

I don’t think anyone deserves blame or praise for the culture they are born into but if there is a problem with the culture, you can’t fix it if you keep insisting that there is nothing wrong.

I didn’t do anything to earn being born into a culture that told parents that it was their duty to make every sacrifice for their children’s education. Similarly a black child didn’t do anything to deserve being born into a culture where violence is so much more prevalent than in similarly poor neighborhoods, where the rate of teen pregnancy and absentee fathers was so high. Where the parents and especially his peers place less value on education.

You’re choosing this sort of rhetoric, when you don’t have to, even when I’ve explained this to you time and time again. Which is why I think these feelings are so deep-seated within you. Any positive stories of black communities, like the prosperity and relative peacefulness of Prince George’s County, MD, are “abberations”, irrelevant to the larger discussions, according to words you’ve used before. When we should see them as stories that prove black American culture and community can be so positive. They’re just as authentically black as single moms and gang members. But you choose to describe them as “abberations”, not as good examples and great success stories of how positive black communities can be.

I never said that the black community is irredeemable. I’m saying that there is a problem with it right at this moment.

And PG county is not typical. Can you name 2 other counties like PG county?

This kind of contempt that you continuously demonstrate sickens me.

You only see contempt because you want to see contempt. You don’t want to admit to inconvenient truths.

[WillFarnaby]

PG county got wealthy just like MoCo and NoVa. Benefits of federal taxation and proximity to DC.

[WillFarnaby]

If someone wants to define what constitutes a “black community” I’m sure I can help in naming quite a few wealthy ones. Unless of course wealth and just treatment is a disqualification as was alluded to earlier.