Not really COVID-19 is it. “coronavirus disease 2019” or simply Coronavirus is the way for the CDC:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/20/us/coronavirus-racist-attacks-against-asian-americans/index.html
Except I didn’t. Your are conflating two different arguments and attacking me for something that wasn’t even about the coronavirus response. What you quoted there was general evil shit the CCP has done, which didn’t include coronavirus, verse general even shit the US has done. What the CCP did in the early coronavirus was certainly stupid and evil, short sighted and a total fuckup, but you are right…that doesn’t minimize or deflect from the fuckups the US has done wrt to our own outbreak. Which I wasn’t doing.
I will say that in the case of the US fuckup, it’s landing squarely on us, while the Chinese CCP fuckup is pretty much a fucking world wide disaster which we still don’t know the extent of the damage it’s going to do. But, again, what you quoted there had zero to do with this argument, nor was I minimizing what is happening in the US or the scale or scope of our political fuckups, many (hell most) of which are squarely on our orange haired leader and his administration.
Overall I agree with you there, the nit was indeed by mentioning that the misdeeds of the US as almost nothing compared to that, of course you were referring to other horrible things China has done, but that is also why I pointed at the “Susanita fallacy”, as in the bad things other nations do is not really the point here, it is a valid one, just not really for this thread.
Speaking of fuckups, one should notice that even regarding China, the “simpatico” act of Trump towards other dictators was a factor too on the US fuckup:
:smack:
…we are in the middle of a propaganda war. But the problem isn’t Chinese propaganda (which is targeted at a domestic Chinese audience) but American propaganda which is targeted at the Domestic American audience.
Does it bother you at all that the positions you have put forward in this thread to claim that “no, calling it the Chinese Virus is not racist” almost exactly mirror the talking points issued by the Trump administration?
Hot tip: when defending yourself against accusations of peddling a conspiracy theory it does not work in your favour to accuse those asking you for evidence of your claims of “massive ignorance”, of not being “awake at all in the past 2-3 years”, and yet still continuing not to provide any evidence. BigT didn’t get anything wrong. Nothing in your big wall of text did hold up. And this current wall of text adds nothing to what you previously wrote.
The WHO coverup for the People’s Republic of China:
“We appreciate the seriousness with which China is taking this outbreak, especially the commitment from top leadership, and the transparency they have demonstrated,” Tedros said, in comments that would be repeatedly quoted in China’s state media for weeks.
The WHO continues to lavishly praise China as they continued to downplay the threat of the coronavirus, taking months to classify it finally as a pandemic because that “might spook the world further.”
Tedros has bent over backward to stay on friendly terms with the emerging superpower.
Tedros was elected to his position with the WHO in 2017, despite the fact that he was not trained as a medical doctor and had no global health management experience. A former minister of health and minister of foreign affairs for Ethiopia, Tedros is an executive member of the Tigray People’s Liberation Front (TPLF) political party, which came to power through a struggle in 1991 and has been listed as a perpetrator in the Global Terrorism Database. After he became the WHO’s chief, critics questioned Tedros’s attempt to appoint then-Zimbabwe dictator Robert Mugabe as a WHO goodwill ambassador.
…can you explain to me what this has to do with the subject of the OP?
Do the alleged actions of Tedros and/or WHO make Trumps comments any less of a racist dogwhistle?
Let’s focus on the US of A getting to a good healthy spot fighting our own war.
Don’t need no dog whistles, don’t need a Pravda propaganda daily briefing from our erstwhile president. We do need everyone to take this shit seriously, ramp up testing, don’t over burden the system, and get thru this.
US is now at 25,000 cases and China 81,000. Let’s show those Chinese that the US can have less infections instead of playing some stupid ass blame game at this stage.
Probably for the same reason why they did everything during this crisis. They think it helps their election chances and they don’t really care about the other consequences of their actions beyond how it affects November 2020.
They want people to remember that this virus originated in China but forget that we all got sick and many of us died because Trump was whistling past the graveyard until the bottom fell out of the market.
Shutting down travel with China probably bought us a month. We squandered it but we bought a month with it nonetheless. that is why Italy is so much worse off than we are right now.
This might end up colloquially being called the China virus but i doubt it. But the outdoor tents that we eventually use to treat patients in hospital parking lots will definitely be called Trumptowns. Trump’s brand will have historical longevity.
Replying to the OP:
The WHO published guidelines back in 2015 that diseases should not be named after places of origin (among many other stipulations). This was precisely *because *places like the Ebola River region had experienced stigma and/or economic repercussions because of the association.
So the idea that China successfully lobbied the WHO on this is demonstrably false; they didn’t need to, it was already in the rulebook.
“But the problem isn’t Chinese propaganda (which is targeted at a domestic Chinese audience)”
This is false, completely false.
A lot of the discussion has circled about comments given by the spokesman Lijan Zaho on Twitter, in English, floating the accusation that the US was the origin of the virus and that the US Army introduced it to China.
Twitter is banned in China, and of course commenting in English is not meant to cater to a Chinese audience.
As I also demonstrated the use of racism accusations is a frequent tactic by the Chinese government, before I cited the Chinese government of accusing Australia of racism for suspending flights originating in China; here’s Zaho popping up again with comments, on Twitter, in English, aimed at the US (AKA not aimed at a domestic Chinese audience) on a CNBC article from last year:
China’s latest tactic: Call America racist
And here’s Xinhua’s Twitter account, again in English, pushing the racism talking point. This is not propaganda aimed for internal use.
All this is not a fluke, it’s part policy by the CCP.
[Wedging race
Wedge politics exploits differences among target communities. The CCP engages in a particular form of wedge politics known as ‘united front’ (tongyi zhanxian, literally united battlefront) work—a byword for a strategy of exploiting internal divisions among the party’s critics or adversaries by forming tactical alliances with some on the other side to isolate and destroy the party’s designated enemies from within.This confrontational and divisive strategy is institutionalised at the highest levels of the CCP organisation where it is coordinated through the United Front Work Department and International Liaison Department of the CCP Central Committee.6 It’s ‘united’ only in the sense that the party seeks to unite people on either side of a ‘battlefront’ with the aim of subverting and overcoming so-called enemies who stand in its way.7
…
To facilitate the CCP’s wedge politics, its champions abroad obscure critical differences between the concepts of party, government and people to ensure that any criticism of the party or government can be dismissed as ‘anti-Chinese’ bigotry. (hello Smapti)
…
"Communist China loves racism against its own people outside of China. It gives them the opportunity to unite the overseas population and sell the point that, you will only be protected and safe when you have a strong motherland. "](https://www.aspi.org.au/report/mind-your-tongue)
This narrative you are trying to weave contradicts observable reality, the Chinese government does in fact use race as a wedge issue in their propaganda efforts aimed outside China.
This is the geopolitical reality, the CCP would have labelled Trump and the US as racist no matter what he said or how he said it as soon as it served its purposes.
And you just lap it up.
What the CCP promotes in its internal propaganda is, as put in this article “China’s nationalism is ethnic-based and built upon both cultural superiority and a narrative of victimhood.”, I mean, what could possibly go wrong with that when you also consider their military expansionism, push for territorial expansion, xenophobia and widespread human rights abuses and a cult of personality centered around the leader?
As an aside, reading the Twitter thread started by Xinhua I noticed an obvious Twitter (again, hint, Twitter is blocked in China) pro Chinese propaganda account, so while one arm of the CCP propaganda machine cries foul over racism another goes around saying things like this to people around the world:
-“India is responsible for all rape in the world.”
-“Turks should cover all the expenses or supply everything needed for whole world as turks fuck goats caused hiv problem”
-Referring to a black person “He said it with no apology to a nigga”
-““White dog shit”,we called u,so u must be it.”
-“costa rica dog keep going eating shit.”
If you don’t want people to accuse you of being racist, you probably shouldn’t be saying racist things.
Which is what you’re doing, because nothing you claim China is doing makes calling SARS-Cov 2 a “China virus” helpful, productive, or useful in any way.
…no it is not.
A lot of the discussion? Bullshit. Hands up anyone here who has even heard of Lijan Zaho before you bought his name up. This thread is about Donald Trump and his administration. It isn’t aboutLijan Zaho, no matter how much you want to twist the conversation.
Well obviously Zaho’s comments were directed at conspiracy theorists then like you and XT then. Because nobody else gives a fuck. Trump’s obvious racist dog whistle was obvious. We don’t need propaganda to be able to point it out.
I’m not a member of the CCP. I’m here, right here, in front of you, telling you my opinion. I’m speaking here, on behalf of myself, telling you that Trump & Co’s usage of the phrases “Chinese Virus” is in my most humblest opinions, really fucking racist.
This may or may not have some degree of truth to it.
But once again it is completely irrelevant.
Because Donald Trump is simply racist as fuck.
And the actions of his administration are racist as fuck.
I have agency and I can say that and I’ve said that.
This narrative you are trying to weave contradicts observable reality, the United States government does in fact use race as a wedge issue in their propaganda efforts aimed inside the United States, and that is exactly what is happening here.
Who gives a fuck what the CCP says?
Or maybe, just maybe, I’m simply telling you what I think.
This is so far outside the scope of the OP I don’t even know how to respond.
Trump and co are calling it the Chinese Virus because it suits them for propaganda reasons. That’s it. That isn’t a controversial opinion.
The Chinese Communist Party, its policies and actions are not a race, their propaganda machine, as I have shown in various citations, would like to conflate criticism of those as racism against the Chinese people, as you are doing right now, well done have a cookie, but it doesn’t make it so.
Calling the disease “Wuhan virus” or “China virus” or “Chinese coronavirus” is the very definition of conflating the Chinese nation and people with “the CCP”.
If you don’t want to be called a racist, then stop being racist.
Banquet Bear you are in full denial and contradicting yourself in what you say, first you open by again denying that China uses propaganda outside its borders or that constitutes a problem, followed by “This narrative you are trying to weave contradicts observable reality”, with the comment that “This may or may not have some degree of truth to it.” regarding a citation on the thing you categorically said isn’t true before. Hint, those three things you said are logically inconsistent.
Calling the issues described in the various citations I brought up not real doesn’t make it so. Just so you know China has an official department called “Central Propaganda Department of the Communist Party of China”, it’s in the blipping name; you can even buy their latest book: “A Battle Against Epidemic: China Combating COVID-19 in 2020”, available in English, French, Spanish, Russian and Arabic, because you know, they target foreign audiences with their propaganda.
“Who gives a fuck what the CCP says?”
Not you, obviously. You seem entirely consumed by Trump, he is your alpha and omega, this impairs your ability to discuss things, clearly. You reflexively ignore context and arguments that do not support your overriding need of sticking with All Trump, All wrong, All the time.
Regarding the OP Trump gave his reasons:
“Mr. Trump told reporters that he was attaching “China” to the name of the virus to combat a disinformation campaign promoted by Beijing officials that the American military was the source of the outbreak.
“I didn’t appreciate the fact that China was saying that our military gave it to them,” Mr. Trump said. “I think saying that our military gave it to them creates a stigma.””
Action, reaction.
You want to believe that’s not the real reason, you want to ignore what the action was that prompted the reaction because it fits better with you to just know that it’s entirely about racism (watch out for GIGObuster giving you a lecture about the problems with mind reading any time never now). If you prefer a simplistic, black and white view of the world that’s up to you, but some of us aspire to do better.
I think that it’s entirely within the scope of the OP that China’s propaganda exploits accusations of racism against other countries for political gain, that’s why I brought it up; specially considering the context of the situation which was initiated by the Chinese government use of propaganda to shift attention away from themselves. You don’t just disagree with that, you are saying that is something that doesn’t exist altogether even after I brought up cite after cite to support the point.
I do think that is very relevant when discussing whether something isn’t or isn’t racist if there is evident (not to you, obviously) pressure or intention by one of the parties involved to exploit accusations of racism for political gain, because obviously (not to you, evidently) when one side, the one you want to completely eliminate from the equation, has a history of doing that very thing and a very large, very active state apparatus with a documented history of exploiting accusations of racism for political gain, that will have an impact on the perception of the issue.
Unless you want to advance the notion that propaganda has no effect whatsoever on people, in which case I’ll kindly ask you, and fellow travelers, to STFU about your endless wailing about [FONT=“Comic Sans MS”]RUSSIA[/FONT] for the foreseeable duration of the Universe, thank you ever so much.
In case you forgot, the place for personal insults is the BBQ Pit.
Imagine being the kind of person who, when there’s a viral pandemic raging across the world and in your own country, your top priority isn’t ameliorating the damage, helping the sick, providing for those who’re out of work, protecting those who have to keep working and exposing themselves, or shoring up the economy against the total collapse that all of these factors are going to precipitate, but rather, is deciding who to blame, or who they should call names at because they started it.
I would urge that kind of person to get the hell of their high horse with their dog-whistling and their buck-passing dedicate their efforts to actually helping people.
I work in a grocery store. I am in the shit right now. I can’t just work from home or self-quarantine, because it turns out that I and people like myself are actually essential to keep civilization running. I’ve probably been exposed to over 10,000 people in the last week, and there are confirmed cases in this area.
Blaming “the CCP” does NOTHING for me or my co-workers. Actual government relief of the type that Trump is denying the need for WOULD.
The thing is, you are being very selective in your outrage over blame being shifted.
This whole situation was propitiated by the CCP doing just that, but for some reason you don’t want to acknowledge it. I know why the CCP wants to but for you, IDK, an overriding hate for Trump married to a narrow, provincialist viewpoint are my guesses.
But now that we are sharing personal circumstances I’ll tell you something, you accused me of being here for no other purpose of spreading a “Yellow Peril” narrative: “The Yellow Peril is a color-metaphor that East Asians are an existential danger and threat to the Western world.”, my girlfriend, 13 years and counting, is East Asian. I’ve lived in Asia for as many years and part of the reason is that I like the people here, I feel very comfortable among them and I can blipping guarantee you that none of those who know me would support your baseless accusations of being a racist.
I go to China a few times a year and every single time I dread it; seeing how people are living under an oppressive government is awful and every time I go it feels worse. I wish they one day get to enjoy the liberties the party controlling their lives fear and loathe so much, and worse yet wish to impose elsewhere.
So I’ll speak up against the CCP’s harmful policies every day and twice on Sundays, thank you very much. if you can’t separate a “race” (just so you know there isn’t a Chinese race) from a political regime, that speaks about your shortcomings, not mine.
So yeah, your name calling is entirely out of order, regardless of your personal frustrations.
…Donald Trump is racist as fuck. The Trump administration is racist as fuck. I’ve seen ZERO propaganda from the CCP apart from what you have cited in this thread. My opinions are 100% my own. You can write lots and lots of words if you like. My opinion remains unchanged.
Telling me to STFU is entirely out of order, regardless of your personal frustrations. You should stop doing that.
And of course propaganda works. Of course it can have an effect on people. You’ve established that CCP propaganda exists. What you haven’t done is demonstrate how CCP propaganda influenced the opinions of people posting in this thread. And if you can’t do that then it doesn’t matter how many words you write, none of that is relevant. None of that matters. This thread literally has nothing to do with the CCP. By calling it the Chinese Virus Trump and co aren’t hurting China or the CCP: they are hurting Asian Americans. That’s the entire point. This is why what Trump said was bad. This entire tangent is a distraction.