Simple question.
Is it cool to start calling Lyme disease the “white people plague?” Because, you know, it really started with the really, really white town of Lyme.
The GOP’s[sup]*[/sup] adventure in Iraq cost a million lives according to many reputable analyses. Have you included this in your calculus? Those losses were due to malicious misbehavior, not ignorant mistakes, like CCP’s initial slowness in responding to the CCP virus. (Anyway, the GOP response to the CCP virus was even worse than CCP’s initial response.)
([sup]*[/sup] “GOP” - I’ve followed your lead, substituting the name of the relevant political party rather than indicting America generally.)
Countries like Taiwan have done a good job of containing the CCP virus. Given GOP’s failures to combat the virus properly, should its instantiation in the U.S. perhaps best be called the GOP virus?
Alright, once again, slowly just for you…
The reason this thread exists in the first place is, I presume by the timming, as a concequence of Trump referring to the SARS 2 virus as the Chinese Virus and the subsequent pearl clutching that ensued; the reason why that happened was in response to Chinese state propaganda trying to deny the origin of the virus(note 1), which you now say you where not aware of.(note 2)
Therefore the order of events is like this:
- Chinese Propaganda makes claim
- Trump responds to that propaganda
- Question raised over whether No.2 is racist or not.
My point in this thread: don’t forget No.1; and for the relationship between No.1, No.2 and No.3 keep in mind that Chinese propaganda (No1. you follow?) has a track record of deflecting criticism with claims of racism and that needs to be taken in consideration when considering No.3.
Why is that relevant? More on this on Note 1 and 2, but before that; one more thing.
All three points are connected and I made my case for it, but you want to ignore all of it and just have another chance to say dump on Trump, which really doesn’t contribute much to the discussion just as if one was started to explore the topic of, I don’t know, the mutiny aboard HMS Bounty, and all you’d do would be to remind everyone of what an ass captain Bligh was, yes we know, but there’s more to that.
Note 1: The question on the OP was why use the term Wuhan virus and how the following question in it “Or because China has more clout and the international community is more reluctant to anger China?” factors in the issue.
The efforts by China using it’s significant propaganda resources, such as attempting to claim that the virus originated elsewhere (which is what prompted Trumps reaction, i.e. points 1 and 2) are entirely relevant to that question so you claiming previously that “This thread is about Donald Trump and his administration.” and berating me with “This entire tangent is a distraction.” is you being wrong, capisce?
When I told you that your obsession with Trump impairs your ability to carry out a discussion it was not a meaningless dismissal.
By the terms in the OP the range of discussion goes from the ins and outs of using geographical names for diseases and the stigma it may or not carry, and the role the Chinese government (you know that thing you absolutely do not want to talk about and claim is a distraction) on the matter.
I quote you “This thread literally has nothing to do with the CCP.”, I quote the OP again “Or because China has more clout and the international community is more reluctant to anger China?”. The person derailing the topic presented for discussion is you, do you understand now?
Option A) Yes
Option B) No
Option C) DRRUUUUUMMMPPPPFFFFF!!!
What I have contributed to the thread is focused on that last question, how China is using it’s power, in particular through the use of propaganda (usually referred as its “Soft Power”) to shape the narrative surrounding events related to the SARS 2 virus outbreak. That, again if you lost focus, is entirely relevant to the question raised in the OP of whether China’s power has an impact on what language is used and how it is interpreted.
Note 2: If your extraordinary claim is to be taken at face value, " I’ve seen ZERO propaganda from the CCP apart from what you have cited in this thread.", then what makes you feel you are in a position to tell me what is or isn’t true or relevant regarding the topic? Arguments from ignorance are never good, specially when served with an attitude.
Well several communicable diseases and pathogenic bacteria should be called American-something from now on.
e.g. It’s about time we got credit for Syphilis and called it American Dicksores
MAGA KAGA!!
This thread is a great example of the backlash that comes from calling Trump supporters (or Trump enablers) racists.
If people hate that so much, why don’t they do the simple things it takes to avoid it… like not saying racist-sounding things, whether they mean to be racist or not?
You don’t think “Chinese Virus” is racist? Fine. Is it a great mystery to you why it sure sounds that way to others?
And context matters. Why is this even a thing right now? Because Trump knows there’s a shitstorm of blame coming his way for his gross incompetence during this crisis. People want to whine it came from China and we shouldn’t be fooled by Chinese propaganda, all the while pushing American propaganda. It’s moronic.
In the end, it seems to me that people want to be able to express racist sentiment without being accused of racism. That’s called eating your cake and having it too. If you’re a racist, just own it.
Why yes, I did include that. Did you include the deaths caused by China in Tibet? How about those in Xinjiang? What about those from Falun Gong? Or do these not count because they are internal and only Chinese? Without even getting into the cluster fucks of earlier eras of the CCP (can you say Mao and the Great Leap Forward or Cultural Revolution), it’s pretty clear that the US isn’t in the same league, even counting Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and whatever else you want to plausibly put on our ledger.
I’m unsure why you think that putting GOP on anything is going to pull my chain. You are obviously under the misapprehension that I’m some sort of GOP follower or something. You also seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that I think the GOP’s (or really the entire US political systems) handling of this outbreak has been good. It hasn’t. And the majority of that falls squarely on the leadership, mainly Trump and his administration. We COULD have done better, been better prepared, had the number of test kits needed in the pipeline. But we didn’t and still don’t, and that is on Trump et al.
I would advise caution in calling Taiwan a ‘country’ though…wouldn’t want to piss off the CCP after all.
That’s at least the third post to point this out. Seems it doesn’t fit some people’s narratives so it gets ignored.
So? the WHO guidelines are not going to stop people from calling things whatever the want to, I pointed elsewhere that Taiwan calls it Wuhan Pneumonia, is that because they are racist against their ethnically related Chinese neighbours? It’s simplistic, or convenient, to default to a single explanation to everything.
Meanwhile this just popped up in the news:
[DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Iran’s supreme leader refused U.S. assistance Sunday to fight the new coronavirus, citing an unfounded conspiracy theory claiming the virus could be man-made by America.
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s comments come as Iran faces crushing U.S. sanctions blocking the country from selling its crude oil and accessing international financial markets.
But while Iranian civilian officials in recent days have increasingly criticized those sanctions, 80-year-old Khamenei instead chose to traffic in the same conspiracy theory increasingly used by Chinese officials about the new virus to deflect blame for the pandemic.](Iran leader refuses US help, citing virus conspiracy theory | AP News)
As it was pointed before by others, Taiwan has many reasons to disparage the mainland, read some history please.
In the meantime one should consider what international orgs decided the proper naming should be, and even what the CDC mentions:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#anchor_1584386215012
Coronavirus in common parlance and [del]COVFEFE-19[/del] COVID-19 in more official settings.
The U.S. is currently the largest contributor to WHO and a member from 1948, the president is not only being a bigot, but also (as usual) not responsible for the duties he is supposed to show regarding international treaties.
:rolleyes:
Yes, thank you, I think everyone is up to speed on what the rule book says.
However, answering the question of why someone did something and what does that mean with “the rule book say they can’t do it” doesn’t go too far, does it?
Way to miss the point, which is that the rule book predates the current situation. Ergo, claiming that they’re currently kowtowing to China/CCP is a non-starter.
You mean like Pontiac fever, which comes from the Pontiac river in Michigan? Or Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever? Or Lyme disease, which got its name because it was first found in Lyme Connecticut? Or maybe Valley fever, which comes from the San Joaquin valley? Then there is Norovirus, named after Norfolk Virginia. Legionnaire’s’ disease was so named because the first outbreak happen at an American legion convention in Philadelphia.
Are those names racist? If not, how do they differ from ‘Wuhan Coronavirus’?
Trump being Trump, when he uses verbiage that could be interpreted as racist, it becomes racist. Intent doesn’t matter. The idea of a border wall isn’t necessarily racist… but combine a border wall with calling Mexicans rapists, saying a judge can’t do his job because he has Mexican ancestry, spreading evidence-free racist conspiracy theories for years and years, and numerous other racist assertions, and that border wall becomes a symbol of racial hatred. When Trump insists on calling the virus the “China virus” or whatever, then it’s entirely reasonable to interpret it as racist, because it’s fucking Trump.
I know this is alien to a lot of people, but this is how I see it, and how the vast majority of non-white people that I’ve spoken to see it. When David Duke says something even slightly related to race, it’s racist, because it’s fucking David Duke. Trump is a bit less obviously racist, but much, much more powerful and influential, than David Duke. His racism isn’t quite as bad as Duke’s, but it’s much, much more powerful and influential. And it’s imperative that decent people oppose it.
…writing lots of words didn’t help you before. I suspect writing slowly isn’t going to help you either.
Lets for the purposes of debate assume the bolded is true (and I don’t think it is.) You would agree that this is a pathetic, petty, ridiculous reason for Donald Trump to cross out “corona” with a sharpie and replace it with China, don’t you?
The order of events is actually this:
- Trump does something really fucking racists
- People call out Trump and co’s racism
- Gaslighters gaslight
Because it doesn’t matter what the CCP did. Trump still did the racist. And that’s all that matters.
It doesn’t matter what the CCP has a track record of doing. Trump still did the racist, and we are calling him out for doing the racist.
There isn’t any more to this. Trump is being racist. We are calling him out. What else matters?
Trump didn’t do the racist because “China has more clout.” Trump did the racist because Trump is racist.
I’m not being wrong. This thread is about Donald Trump and his administration. They did the racist, they continue to do the racist, they’ve distributed racist talking points. You’ve argued that it is related to the CCP but the evidence you’ve provided is woeful. The people in this thread haven’t been influenced by CCP propaganda. We are simply calling Trump out for being a racist.
its a strawman, and a poor one at that. I don’t have an **obsession **with Trump. i have an opinion, and I’ve expressed it.
The thread literally has nothing to do with the CCP. All of your posts simply prove that. There is no relationship between the opinions expressed that Trump is a racist and a propaganda effort by the CCP. Its the relationship you have failed to prove. Who in this thread who has expressed an opinion against Trump do you think was influenced by CCP propaganda? Name names.
LOL. I’m not derailing the thread. I’m not throwing around conspiracy theories. I’m entirely on topic.
China’s power had absolutely nothing to do with me calling Trump and his administration racist. It has everything to do with the fact that Trump and his administration is racist.
There is nothing extraordinary about my claim. Its your claim that my position has been influenced by CCP propaganda. This simply isn’t the case. I’m certainly not arguing from ignorance: I know much more about my own personal circumstances than you ever will.
All of them were named prior to 2015.
And because someone since has decided that such names might ‘stigmatize’ a region, we all have to agree and abandon common naming practices that have been in use for a century, or risk being called a racist.
That’s exactly how the language gets weaponized by people with an agenda. It’s exactly how propagandists in China and Russia use our own language against us. It’s one of the oldest plays in the book. And the left keeps falling for it, over and over again, because it fits their priors.
Do you think people who live in the Rockies feel stigmatized by the name Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever? Do you think West Nile virus makes people think less of those who live in that region? Did Legionaire’s disease stigmatize people who are members of the American Legion organization?
I have yet to see or hear anyone show any xenophobia towards Chinese people over this. Everyone knows you are not personally at fault if a virus breaks out in your country. Some people ARE mad about the Chinese government’s role in allowing wet market practices known to be dangerous, then covering it up and making the global damage much worse - which of course is why there is a propaganda campaign to shame anyone who dares to mention China along with the virus.
If one reads post #38 one will notice that since 2015 that was accorded. It may not be racist specifically but grossly ignorant to continue to deny that item, specially at a leadership level.
(Then I also do agree with many that point that racism is a kind of ignorance)
Nope, that is also ignoring what was agreed in 2015, and the USA is a signer to that.
Irrelevant after 2015
Well, thanks for showing all that you missed post #161, Trump is just continuing with the bigotry and the continuing to goad some followers to continue with ignorant attacks against Asians in the USA.
As I pointed before I’m aware of how much of a bastard the Chinese rulers can be, but as one should be aware, even bastards can have a point. Trump is going against what was accorded in 2015.
Hang on…
COVID-19 started in Wuhan but calling it ‘Wuhan flu’ is (apparently) racist.
Lyme disease started in a town called Lyme (never knew that), but calling it ‘Lyme disease’ isn’t racist.
Seems to me that either both names are racist or neither of them are.
Are you now going to argue that “Chinese virus” isn’t racist, but “white people plague” is?