Racism is good

Great Debates
1

Unfortunately, we tend to lose track of our origins and what made us a successful species. Evolution has given us certain dispositions that we ignore at our peril. One of them is racism. First off, I must say that there is ample de facto proof that racism is a good thing simply from the fact that it exists at all. If racism were an evolutionary disadvantage, the it would have been selected out a long time ago. But it hasn’t! It must be there for a reason, and those reasons should be explored before we throw away this most sacred of human institutions.

Some argue that diversity is a strong survival trait. I’ll agree with that, for the sake of argument. How do we maintain diversity in an increasingly interconnected world? Carl Sagan argued, quite convincingly IMO, that one tool of evolution is the separation of a species into smaller breeding populations. This genetic isolation allows greater drift in the gene pool over a given length of time. Then infrequent between group breeding creates a healthy injection of new genes to prevent the isolated groups from suffering the ill effects of inbreeding, but just as importantly to share more diverse genetic information.

In our world, physical isolation is becoming a thing of the past. The more we share our genetic information, the more homogenous we become as a species. The more homogenous, the less diverse we become. Hence the greater the risk from whatever it is that we need diversity to protect us from in the first place.

So the question is: how do we accomplish this goal? I say we pick the most meaningless and arbitrary distinction possible: skin color. It’s perfect. Since blacks are as good as whites, and whites as good as Asians, etc., this arbitrary break not will short change any given group. While at the same time, we can use the isolated breeding groups to increase our genetic diversity. Of course, there will always be some degree of intermarriage, hence the sharing of genetic information.

Racism is the answer to whatever it is that we are using diversity to protect us from. QED.

This bonehead argument was designed to show that I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, and show Persephone that putting out bonehead arguments that you don’t agree with is a good way to grow as a debater*. I apologize for any offense I’ve caused.

2

Thank God, js. You scared the shit out of me there for a second.

3

I agree, Not only does racism promote diversity, It promotes:pride,self esteem and culture.

Also it allows us to evolve apart.
Look at the differences between ordinary Caucasians and Jewish people. I’m very glad that i do not suffer from the 100+ ethnic specific disease they do. Or Sickle Cell Enima…or any other disease.

On the cultural pride;think family heritage.
It’s hard to convince your half-black son to wear a kilt like his ancestors did in scotland, he will feel alienated from you and probably his mother.

Anyways i’m at work so i gotta go,FLAME ON!:smiley: :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

4

Well, give us another look-see when they return you to your cell.

In the spirit of the OP:

It would have only been bred out if it had existed long enough to be selected against. Given that actual racism is a relatively recent phenomenon (since few people got far enough from their homes to encounter people to despise, based solely on appearance, until quite recently*), humanity has not yet had an opportunity to breed it out.

Now, one may posit that xenophobia is a naturally occurring phenomenon that has some value. The value might be that, in a clan or tribal situation, a natural distrust of “other” prevents any given individual from being too friendly or trusting toward a hostile group that may have designs on the individual’s territory. I suggest that such a trait would, however, be an adaptive sociological trait, rather than an evolutionary trait. I suspect that we would need genuine evidence to may an informed guess regarding either possibility.

While Sagan’s comments are valid in regards to general speciation, it has already proven inadequate to the task in regards to humanity–where we have already demonstrated a propensity to breed with anyone who is available, regardless of appearance. (And speciation in nature generally occurs only in physical isolation. Arbitrary “barriers” such as racism will never succeed in keeping potential “species” apart, so it has already failed in that regard.) In fact, the separation of the “races” prior to 1500 utterly failed to develop the heterogeneity that is speculated in the OP.

  • Regardless whether you hold that racism, per se began in the eighteenth century or whether you believe that it was demonstrated as long as 3,000 years ago, neither time period is sufficient for an actual evolutionary adaptation based on that phenomenon.
5

without racism there would be no anti-racism.

6

Also in the spirit of the OP:

Is this not false? I’m struggling a bit to recall the relevant biology, but I don’t think mingling genes would result in the loss of any genetic diversity. It would just spread the different genes around, leading them to be expressed in different ways. That is, all the genetic variability would still be in the gene pool, there just wouldn’t be as many individuals with certain specific combinations of genes (such as homozygous recessives for blond hair and blue eyes). But blue-eyed people pass on genes for blue eyes, regardless of whether their children express those genes.

7

When i get home from work I will post an article i read called “Racism as an evolutionary tool of survival”.

If youre not a close minded sheep you will find the article interesting. The mark of an educated man is to be able to entertain an idea they do not beleive

—repost from wrong post.

8

Absolutely!
I would also like to point out that the stupidity genes didn’t go extinct for a reson - stupidity is an evolutionary advantage.

On second thought, stupity and racism correlate. I say, it’s the same gene.

9

Racism? Pah! I say infanticide is good. There is a distinct survival/social/evolutionary advantage in weeding out any weak offspring so as to not waste resources on those who cannot contribute as much to survival of others.

Wait… you mean that just because something is an evolutionary advantage it is not automatically a moral “good?” :wink:

10

I agree, Not only does racism promote diversity, It promotes ride,self esteem and culture.

Not so. Diversity occurred because oceans, mountains, and other geological features separated people. And when people from these different diverse regions came together as is the case in the Mediterranean region a homogenous people developed. That’s why in Europe we have Europeans (white people) and in Asia we have Orientals. This was because the geographical location of the people separated them

You speak of pride as if it was a good thing see Proverbs 27:1-2 and 16:18. A little pride is OK racism transforms it to prejudice.

Also it allows us to evolve apart.
Look at the differences between ordinary Caucasians and Jewish people. I’m very glad that i do not suffer from the 100+ ethnic specific disease they do. Or Sickle Cell Enima…or any other disease.

I don’t understand why you praise evolving apart when the diseases you cite are in part the result of living apart.

On the cultural pride;think family heritage.
It’s hard to convince your half-black son to wear a kilt like his ancestors did in scotland, he will feel alienated from you and probably his mother.

America has a culture. And it is without doubt that our society becomes much better off as we move away from racism. My son likes meat on his pizza which is totally American and I’m sure many of you can think of things that are part of the American culture that are not the result of racism. Diversity has brought numerous cultural innovations to America (jazz, Cajun, etc.) things we can truly enjoy and be proud of without racism.

11

I’d venture that if there were no racism, there’d be no Rock N Roll. If blacks had been accepted into American society from the get-go, blacks would be playing Lawerence Welk music or something. Instead, being segregated allowed blacks to preserve their culture enough to keep their music distinctive from white music, thus providing, once the time was right, a much-needed injection of diversity to create the wonderful hybrid that is Rock N Roll.

On the same note, hatred is good, too. Hell, we’d be overpopulated fer sure if we all loved each other…

:dubious:

12

I’d venture that if there were no racism, there’d be no Rock N Roll…

Not so musicians form the beginning sought new and different ways to express themselves. It was racism that prevented the timely merger of black and white culture.

…overpopulated fer sure if we all loved each other…
Are you the result of love or rape? There are more of us who are of the former. Furthermore disease and pestilence are a far greater population control.

13

Pizza is about as “American” as Hamburgers, and we all know that the hamburger was first popularized in Hamburg ,Germany. Pizza is a Mediterranean-area dish…so find a new example, perhaps you should have said rock n roll.

This is really a mute point, you didn’t manage to convince me to destroy my heritage by adopting “american” heritage which doesnt justify now encourage the treason against my forefathers.

I personally can trace my family back to 1000ad. I embrace my heritage and would do nothing to destroy it. I believe all children should have this wonderful history,and know their roots.

Americans should be proud of and protect their Race, Heritage and Family name. Don’t let some nancy sheep tell you that being American is forsaking your past…because it’s simply a destructive and hurtful lie.

Also on the point of rock-n-roll… What has rock-n-roll done to promote the advancement of the American people? I would say it has done more to hurt us, it has turned peoples attention and thoughts from complex, stimulating and relaxing orchestrations to triadic, corporate crap.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE folk and regional music, country, rock, irish folk, jazz, blues, reggae(sp?),ska, punk, techo industrial, ect… I believe in “uneducated music” and that is exactly what rock is, but there is a problem when any “uneducated” quality is prevalent in a field. Imagine if a form of uneducated healing was the primary practice of doctors in the USA…take voodoo witch healing for example, what if corporations pushed it instead of medical and scientific healing?

Just some of my thoughts…I need to get back to work,please challenge me, I really enjoy the people on this forum but I find it sad that some of the people just want to flame people who share different views then they do.

14

My only argument is this:
If you have A culture and B culture, and both grow completely separate from eachother, and do not interbreed, eventually you will have what could potentially be dangerous genetic consequences because of a thin and lacklustre gene pool.

However, if A and B interbreed, and you then have AB and Ab and Ba and BA and ba cultures, you are guaranteeing the continuation of the species as a whole, because the gene pool would be constantly changing, to the point where you’d have AaB, BBBa, etc etc etc cultures.

This is why even the people who have no concept of ‘genetic consequences’ practice some form of ‘intermingling’. There is a tribe in Scott Turnbull’s The Mountain People I believe who will only marry their children to people from outside of their own village, and have been doing this for years and years, because while they don’t know exactly why it’s a bad thing, they have a cultural instinct for survival.

Eh, so yeah. Probably not the best worded argument, but there it is.

15

And there you have it, folks. Someone nattering on about his (I guess “pure”) roots who gets two wrong out of two tries in two sentences.

While American hamburgers were first prepared from a style of ground beef known (in the U.S.) as the Hamburger style, no citizen of Hamburg had ever seen the dish popularly known as hamburger until it was introduced to Europe by Americans.

The Italians do, indeed, have a dish known as pizza. (They, in fact, have two, as the variety served in the Po valley is quite different than the variety served in the South.) However, the dish that Americans call pizza has only a loose connection to either of those dishes and is, indeed, an American creation.

I agree that Americans should be proud of their “race” (as used in the sense common prior to 1740). And since the indigenous people were here for some 12,000 to 14,000 yars prior to the Europeans while the Africans arrived within 12 years of the first permanent European colony (and all of them have intermarried like humans) and even the slightly later Asians have managed to intermarry with the same horny enthusiasm as their predecessors, I think that we should, indeed, celebrate our “race” by ignoring artificial boundaries. Keeping a record of one’s roots is a good thing–as long as one does not pretend that only one side of the family is importatnt.

16

Yeah, but **tomndebb **, I think you’ll be forced to admit that marble cake contains real glass balls, if only because my entire argument hinges upon it.

17

Ha sanyone ever been exposed to this?
I was exposed by a pamphleteer @ my University.
I’d like to see some Dopers sink their teeth into this and chew on it.

18

Here are som more I was able to find rathe quickly.
new republic
asu.edu
breggin.com
christianparty.net
Who can combat this?
Do the warriors of ignorance propagate themselves faster than the warriors against ignorance?
Some of this stuff takes a technical knowledge to refute. I’m afraid that most people will buy it. Dr. Rushton has degrees and teaches at a university.

19

Pizza is about as “American” as Hamburgers, and we all know that the hamburger was first popularized in Hamburg ,Germany
Americans put meat on pizza

…you didn’t manage to convince me to destroy my heritage by adopting “american” heritage…
I did not say that you should abandon your heritage. My question is “are you clinging to your heritage because you are a raciest?” And is racism the force that forges new cultures and heritages? I say not. It is the mutual cooporation and intermingling of diverse cultures, as Liakela has pointed out, that produce newer and more advanced civilizations. This is the opposite from the OPs suggestion that racism is necessary for this to happen. History and roots are good but we should learn from history and roots produce a plants that again produce fruit that are the seed for future generations that will progress and evolve into cultures drastically different from what they are today. Racism hinders this progress, which is my point.

**What has rock-n-roll done to promote the advancement of the American people?.. **
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. In the words of the Human Torch “Flame On!”

20

oops sorry about the new republic url.
It’s New Republic Vol. 211 from 10-31-1994
This is what the teaser there says:
“Suddenly, hereditarianism is back on the American right. “race, pathology and I.Q.,” read the headline of one of two excerpts from The Bell Curve in The Wall Street Journal on October 10. “race, intelligence, and science,” was the rubric that glowed on the sleeve of the September 12 issue of National Review. The latter contained a rave review of a different book, by Canadian psychologist J. Phillipe Rushton, titled Race, Intelligence, and Behavior. Rushton’s book offered far-out views about differences in intelligence, work habits and genital size among …”