I often think about the quote “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society”. I try to stray away from being judgmental, so I wouldn’t use the word sick personally, but I definitely think it’s really unhealthy that people have to adjust to societies that don’t resonate with them or a society that is counter-intuitive to how they want to exist. Makes me wonder why each region doesn’t have societal options available.
I fantasize of a world where people who want to be a part of a capitalistic rat race can continue to do so, while people who aren’t money motivated but rather motivated by connections and are anti-competition can form their own communities and figure out ways to build comfort there. I want this to apply to different ideologies beside mine (the latter). I wish there really were accommodations for every inclination and nobody would have to feel left out or maladjusted.
A bit unrelated, but I figured I can throw this thought in here too: It bothers me how words which have long had a negative connotation are seen as positive traits now - such as ambition and pride. I also strongly dislike the idea of confidence. I feel like all these things are propagated by the idea that worthiness is a function of how much better you can prove/display that you are than others. How is that a healthy way to live life? I always wonder how people feel comfortable rendering all facets of their life a competition.
If you want to form a non-capitalist community of like-minded people there doesn’t seem to be much stopping you from doing it. Granted, on the edge of your community you’ll probably have to interact with the capitalist society outside your community. But that’s just the way it is. If you forced those outsiders to abide by your rules, you’d be going against the principles you claim to want to live by.
I don’t see how ideas like ambition, pride, or confidence are negative. And I don’t see how they have been negative in the past. They all reflect a belief in making yourself better than you are and that’s not a negative trait. You can go astray by misusing these terms and following a path that only claims to be an improvement while it actually isn’t. But that doesn’t disprove the idea - it just shows you misused it.
Just don’t expect society to hand you something. Society will do things society’s way. If you want to do things a different way, you have to do it yourself. Gather up you ambition and your confidence and go out and achieve something you can be proud of.
Really? Pride is one of the traditional seven deadly sins, indeed, I believe it was considered the most dangerous of them, the sin that led to Lucifer’s fall. Have you never heard the saying “Pride goeth before a fall”? As for ambition (inasmuch as it is different from pride) much of Greek and Shakespearean tragedy is about how ambition leads to disaster, and, even today, there is the notion in some places (Australia, particularly, it seems) of “Tall Poppy syndrome”. Justified confidence may be seen as good, but overconfidence is commonly derided, and the line between the two is very difficult to draw.
The friendly commune **Limitless **aspires to seems particularly amenable to his regional societal option scheme. All they’d need to do is suffer our ways long enough accumulate enough resources and land to set up the community. With a small handful or larger group of people, they can really spread out and minimize the annoying contact with us normal people.
As long as they pay their taxes and don’t pile up trash everywhere, the rest of us surely wouldn’t care much that they don`t like our societal values. That’s in contrast to, say, a polygamist compound or a pedophile village or satantic ritual abuse center, which we couldn’t abide.
Incidentally, Limitless, your anti-competitive comfort based community seems an awful lot like a healthy family to me. I have to go out in the real world and make money but I get to come home to a lovely respite from the real world. We never give our 3 year old or our dog any shit for not being ambitious or contributing to the family income. We’re all about comfort and connections.
Pleasure in doing something well is satisfaction, I think.
Making sure everyone knows how pleased you are with yourself is pride. Pointing it out to people, is pride. Expecting special treatment for it is pride.
In M. Scott Peck’s The Road less Traveled He asserted that one of the things that can make life really unbearable is believing that life is supposed to be easy and that conversely coming to an acceptance that life is difficult somehow makes life easier, more bearable.
I don’t know how much any of that applies to your situation Limitless, but I suspect a focus on how society ought to be that doesn’t have much acceptance for how it is would be misery inducing.
Perhaps a volunteering for an organization with ideals similar to your own might be helpful. Good chance it would be a worthy endeavor all on its own and it might help with meaningful social connectedness.
Actually, this illustrates the seemingly fine but very important distinction: it’s “Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall” (Proverbs 16:18, KJV).
Bolding mine. Is that really so? Or are ideas like ambition, pride, and confidence there to make one better than someone else?
That said, I think most of what has been achieved by humanity, for good or bad, is the result of those traits. I am not sure a passive, peaceful society has ever existed that did not eventually get wiped-out by those with an abundance of those ideas (e.g. Moriori people).
Pride is one of those words that has multiple meanings and connotations. It can be positive or negative depending on what you mean by it.
Having an accurate view of one’s own worth and abilities relative to those of others is both an antidote to the bad sort of pride and a requisite of the good sort.
I don’t think everybody in a society has to have the same level of ambition, competitiveness, etc. In fact, I suspect things run more smoothly when they don’t.
Just to take one example, some jobs/professions thrive on competitiveness, ambition, assertiveness, etc. while others don’t. Both kinds of professions play a useful role in society. Someone like the OP would be well-advised to seek the latter kind of job, where his desire for cooperation and inclusion are a virtue rather than a fault.
Sorry… not to hijack, but I’m sitting here cracking up to the mental image of a refurbished Dairy Queen in a strip mall parking lot with a sign saying “Satanic Ritual Abuse Center”.
I hear you brohaim. The problem is due to income inequality it is hard to make it without turning your life over to the rat race.
Then you have issues like privacy. You can learn very cheap and drop out of the race but doing so requires giving up privacy, luxury, etc. I looked into living in communes before, for about $300/month you’d get a shared bedroom with bunk beds, utilities and much of your food (co-op bought and prepared). Throw in a bus pass and you can live cheap. But what kind of roommates do you get? People who live that cheap could be cool artists. They could also be criminals, fuck ups and the deeply disturbed. Hard to tell.
Your best bet is to move to a different wealthy country. There work benefits (health insurance, vacation days, etc) are mandated by the public sector, not employers. Then find a part time job you like.
