Bravo, well-said. Agree 100%
I just gave this a quick read before I’m off to work, but wow. Are these schools you are talking about or prisons?
I don’t disagree that there are bad parents out to do bad things. But to create an environment where we build a fortress to keep our kids away from their own parents under the guise of safety is mind boggling and, in the end, extremely counterproductive to the school’s primary mission.
I found out about the whole background check thing lately as well. As you might guess, I thought it was silly. Parents were asked if we wanted to help walk the kids to the park for their Christmas party on Friday. I have the day off, so sure. Do I have clearance?
What? I asked to help walk the kids to the park with 5 other adults around, not become an FBI agent. I’m not taking a day off work to get fingerprinted by the cops. Fuck that.
On my campus this year, on more than one occasion children have been actively stopped from walking off campus of their own accord without correct permission and correct parents. The incidents were usually lazy parents who didn’t bother to find out the rules or willful children who directly disobeyed multiple orders to stay on campus (or get off campus, missing their busses). If there were any abduction or harmful issues I am not aware of them. I say that’s reasonable for an elementary school.
Additionally, anything that keeps my theoretical 1.5 year old or willful 5 year old imprisoned in a daycare behind a coded door and not wandering down the street that I’ve seen motorcycle drivers take on one wheel has got my vote.
How exactly is keeping track of who is on campus and making it embarrassingly easy for parents to know their kids are safe on campus and can feel confident that everyone on campus is very likely supposed to be there and vouched for not part of the schools primary mission to promote a safe learning environment. I’m just glad they’re letting you on campus - I’ve heard some principals aren’t allowing the parents to volunteer in their own classrooms at all. No idea if the ban extends to field trips.
No, you didn’t find out about the “whole background check thing”. You half-heard when someone mentioned it to you, either as something that you as an informed parent should know from your child’s teachers, the PTA meetings, the website, or inquiring in the office during the last 1.25-2.25 years.
Yes, teachers and workers do have full criminal background checks. Probably fingerprints and other searches. Parent volunteers and other volunteers do not. You go into the school office (most are open an hour before school starts and stay open an hour after school lets out), sign into the district computer (there’s an icon you click) and enter your name, address, phone number, optional email address, maybe your driver’s license number and social security number (one of the few times I do give it out, despite my usual opposition to such things). It churns through a couple of data bases and in two weeks you’re clear to be a campus volunteer.
That’s it. No finger prints, no wasted precious days off of work for the benefit of your child. Do it once a year, sometime in the summer or at any time up to two weeks before your volunteer event.
The PBC site isn’t loading for me - but it took me not long to come up with that search string to produce those results.
This is why the details on the fight are confidential. You may be joking, there are some stupid people out there who, if their perfect, innocent, precious snowflake had gotten into a fight (she would never have started it, she’s NOT that kind of girl), would find and assault the other child.
I blame the baby boomers. 
In my district, room parents and field-trip chaperones have to have two state-mandated clearances. The first is done online through the PA State Police. The other requires so much paperwork (but no fingerprints) that most parents don’t even bother. Since orgs like the Scouts and youth sports require the same two clearances, it’s no big deal to do it once a year and be done with it.
But if you’re interested in volunteering, it’s worth it to find out what you have to do and get them on file.
I am totally flabbergasted at this thread. I have 4 children in public schools and I’ve never had to do any kind of background check or get permission from anyone to visit my children’s classrooms.
And any school that required such things would be very suspicious to me. I would assume they are hiding something they don’t want parents to see.
I can’t beleive how many dopers think it’s normal and necessary to take such measures to protect children from their own parents.
I just a few minutes ago got back from my daughter’s 2nd grade classroom in which I watched her (and the other kids) give presentations on an assigned community job. She was a bus driver and she talked about the job and how it helps the community. The presentation was to the other children, but of course parents are always welcome. The children were adorable, and they are always so excited to see their parents at school.
Is this experience really so unusual?
Holy crap this thread is giving me culture shock.
My daughter’s primary school (ages 5 to 11-ish) doesn’t even have a “front office”. The office is in the middle - you go there if you have to drop off a form or ask a question or give them some money. Parents wander in in the mornings to drop off their kids (or not, as the case may be … but there’s lots of traffic in the area so mostly we do) and if you want to go into class before start time to ask the teacher something or admire the artwork on the walls, then you just do. There’s no such thing as a “Visitor Pass”. You can volunteer for stuff any time you feel like it. The front gate is open all day (and the side gate is open all night too).
There are plenty of divorced parents here just like anywhere, yet somehow we seem to get by with this system (well, lack of system). I just thank God I don’t live in the OP’s area.
ETA: Simulpost! Well, I had to interrupt my post halfway to go sew up my daughter’s shirt for 20 minutes, so kinda 
Aspidistra,
It’s giving me culture shock too, and I live in the U.S.! I guess there are some serious differences depending on what area you live in.
Yikes! It sounds scary to be treated like a suspect just because you are going to your child’s school.
Yeah, me too. My friends all volunteer at their kids’ schools, and though I don’t have kids in the PS system, I have often had to go to the office or a classroom for one thing or another.
I have a really hard time believing the contempt and dismissal of a very simple and easy thing–walking a 6yo to her new classroom in the middle of the year. I’m familiar with the way that teachers assume that all parents are incompetent idiots (I used to work at a school, and it’s very easy to do), but holy cow.
2 responses:
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Rules are usually put in place because someone screwed up with a capital F. You sound fortunate to be at a school/district where no one had to deal with a major (read dangerous) issue with a parent.
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Reasonableness (rightly or wrongly) is a consideration in the granting of access. Seeing your child give a presentation is reasonable. Moving supplies from one classroom to another is not and if JT were to take an objective look given that he had to make a (self-admitted) ass and was told REPEATEDLY by staff and based on the responses he got in this thread he would have to agree.
Now is that to say that a parent can’t say, “I’m here to see my child’s presentation.” and create problems, but I think that that only solidifies the err on the side of student safety.
As for the paperwork, each state is different. California started it when a convicted sex-offender got a job as a school janitor and since he wasn’t a teacher he wasn’t fingerprinted. (sh)It really hit the fan when he raped a student. Some states are more extreme than others in regards to people on campus without being fingerprinted or background checked.
But I think JT’s whole reaction to school security is betrayed by this quote
Every freaking security policy has to revolve around what YOU want?! So it is inconvienent to ask you to be check around other parent’s kids? You don’t even have to take a day off, but getting fingerprinted is to much of a hassle? Where’s your newfound dedication now? So there is NO POSSIBILITY that you’ll be alone with a child? What if they need escorted to the bathroom or run off and you need to look for them. Bottom line is this jt, you may not who care is around your child and that is your decision, but if you are not properly vetted by the powers that be - respect my decision and get the fuck away from my son.
You are one selfish SOB
(OK mods. Ready for the warning but it was worth it)
That attitude freaks me out. Of course I care who is around my child. Every parents does, so don’t make this a “I just care more than you” thing.
But to treat every parent who wants to volunteer in the classroom like a potential murder suspect is way over the line.
I volunteer extensively in my kid’s schools. I am alone with kids frequently and I was never 'vetted by the powers that be." Of course it’s possible that one of the volunteers will rape or murder one of the kids in the broom closet, but such a thing is so statistically rare that it is not something I spend my mental energy worrying about.
Someone can have a background check and still murder a child in a broom closet.
I think of it this way: If we have background checks and make it harder for people to volunteer in the classroom, there is 100% chance of fewer volunteers and a diminished educational climate for my child. There is also a tiny tiny chance that a future attack will be prevented.
Yep we got dat too. Excerpt parents can preload “approved” foods and also get a report on what was consumed. (most schools have a choice of 3-5 different meals from 6-8 stalls)
Agree 100%. I just don’t understand the outright hostility from someone who is in the educational field towards a parent who wants to contribute to the school, volunteer his time, and make it a better place.
But if I sit at home and drink all day, then the educational professionals don’t like that either, so I guess I’ll just do what I’m told and keep buying those candy bars!
Ok, a few things.
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This thread started because jt made (in the opinion of many people on this thread) an unreasonable last-second request of the school. Then he was upset that they did not change policy just for him. The issue was never about volunteering.
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The issue of vetting that I raised was specifically that he would be in a potentially uncontrolled environment (the park). That is EXTREMELY different than a parent volunteering in a classroom where there will be a credentialed person there at all times and the environment is very strictly controlled. Would you want some parent you don’t know and has not been checked alone with your child in a park, Palo Verde? I suspect the answer is no. What about that same parent in a classroom with the teacher present? I would say yes. See the difference?
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My main objection is to JT’s attitude about the situation. Some schools are extremely security conscious and what you may say is a prison I may view as safe. Maybe you’re in an area where everyone knows everyone else but I have worked in urban schools where if you react to a situation, you may already be too late.
But JT refuses to see the bigger picture. It’s all about what he wants and how he deserved special treatment. Then he complains that security procedures are too inconvienent for him even though he didn’t mind inconvienencing others to get what he wanted.
Last week I (and several other parents) went with the teacher and a bunch of 2nd graders to the zoo. At various points some kids would need to go to the bathroom and one of the parents would go off with the child to the zoo bathroom.
Is this what you mean? That I, a completely un ‘vetted’ volunteer parent was alone with someone else’s child in a bathroom. Would this be a problem for you?
Now keep in mind this is Tucson, AZ, with a metro area of more than a million people. This isn’t a small town in which everyone know each other.
If they required a police check and fingerprinting, there would be fewer parents willing to go on such an outing. After all, you already have to take time off work and deal with a bunch of hyper 7 year olds. So instead of 6 parents with the 22 children, there might be 3. Is this making anyone safer? Am I supposed to be worried because Ramon’s mother walked my daughter to the toilet and they were (dum dum dum…) alone?!? Nope. Not worried about this at all.
I’m curious about what, if any, discipline was handed out. Did both kids get punished, or only the one that started the fight?
That’s a strangely combative attitude. You are most certainly working for the public. Teachers in public schools are employed by the city/county the school is in. 60% of our county budget goes to schools. My car taxes and my house taxes, plus money from income and sales taxes. I’m not saying that you’re required to take orders from individual parents, just that you do work for them collectively in a very real sense.
The problem I see here is the OP is supposed to be an involved parent of a public shool student but they aren’t even allowed to go beyond the entrance of a public school without scrutiny and a shakedown. How many times does is he presumed guilty and required to prove his innocence? Would you let your child go to a daycare or babysitter where they just met you at the door and said, “Here, we’ll take it from here, nothing more to see here, please be on your way”?
If every parent was escorting their child to class every day that would be bad. Most things taken beyond moderation are bad. But once or twice, I would consider that a good thing rather than a bad thing. The child would no doubt be happy sharing that part of their life with their parent, the parent gets to see what their child experiences every weekday. How is this a bad thing?
Without a cursory background check? Yes, I would have a problem with that because for me it’s not a numbers game. It’s not a case where for every 100 times that situation occurs with no problem that it’s OK when the 101st time goes horribly wrong.
Then you should read what that was in response to. While a teacher is a public servant and is answerable to parents for some things, JT’s attitude was the I as a teacher was PERSONALLY answerable to his wishes and desires because I apparently work FOR HIM since he was PAYING CUSTOMER.
Some of the schools around here (state of Virginia, USA) are like that, but most aren’t these days. I consider all this a vast over-reaction to school shootings like Colombine. Never mind the fact that shootings have happened at a handfull of schools out of thousands and thousands of schools nationwide, and never mind that a criminial with a gun is not going to be the least bit deterred by requests to obtain a visitor badge.
I think Old Hippie is pretty much right on the money too; a few hysterical parents have brought this upon everyone. Sad state of affairs.
OK, my last post to this thread appears to have been invisible, since everyone ignored the fact that I gave an example of a violent parent threatening another person’s kid and getting close enough to hitting him that she had to be dragged off by two teachers. But hey, what the fuck, I’ll post again.
You are all going on and on about how you (parents) have a right to be with your own children. I teach classes of between 16 and 28, depending on age and ability. Unless you’re an alligator, not all those kids could possibly be yours. So you’re not just in a room with your own kids, you’re in a room with a bunch of other people’s kids. Secondly, if I see you walking through the school with or without a badge, it is my job to challenge you. You may not be a parent of any child there. You’re all talking about non-custodian parents and other related ne’er-do-wells, but ignoring the salient fact that sometimes you just get a crazy person wandering in. Just the other day we had a local alcoholic escorted from our premises by the police; he’s not a parent, he came in to keep warm, wander about, maybe see if he could find anything he could sell… whatever. Would you rather, for the sake of your precious ego not being assaulted, that we as teachers didn’t challenge anyone we saw, and someone like him could wander as freely as you? Because I for one can’t always tell just by looking who’s the crazy person and who’s the legitimate parent. To be quite honest, there’s not always much of a difference. You have put your child into school, and thereby put me in loco parentis. If you saw someone unexpected around your kid elsewhere, you’d challenge them, find out what they were doing, who they were, whether your child was safe. During the school day, I am in the place of the parent. I do that same thing; the same level of challenge, the same desire to protect. It’s a duty of care entrusted to me by each of the parents of each of the students in my charge, and I take that duty of care very seriously.
It’s interesting to note also that as a teacher in the UK I have to have an enhanced criminal records bureau check every year, have to be qualified (obviously), have to be a member of the General Teaching Council which regulates practice and can strike teachers off, have to undergo three performance management observations a year on top of regularly having other staff in my classroom watching me teach, have to undergo inspection every three years which, if failed, means I would never teach again… How often do you have to do any of that kind of thing as a parent? Are there in fact *any *checks on who can breed and who can’t? You’re saying that all parents should be allowed to be in school at any time. As I’ve said, not all of them are sane or safe to be near children. Sometimes not even their own.
On that note, I’d also like to throw in that people are complaining about schools being too enclosed or too security conscious, or too hidebound by routine; that we’re trying to keep your kids in a bubble. Just a final thought. For a lot of the kids I teach, their life outside is one of neglect, chaos, gangs, violence, crime, poverty and insecurity. I will continue to do what I can to make school a place of safety for those children: the only consistent, secure place they know. And if that means I ask you what you’re doing in the hallways in the middle of the day, get over it by thinking about the fact that we have a lot of students and only one of them is yours.