Re GTA4 as video games get ever more real & immersive is there a real danger?

Great Debates
1

In thinking about the recent release of GTA 4 and it’s underpinning moral philosophy & fairly sociopathic worldview, it does give me a bit of a pause and possibly a bit of an old geek “get off my lawn” moment. Over the course of the past 20 years or so I’ve seen PC video games go from crude, blockly graphics to near real environments. I’ve wound down my geekiness substantially over the past 10 years, but I was still amazed when I was helping my son install his Nvidia 8800 and some games, how amazingly real and immersive the gameplay was. It was almost like an interactive movie.

I’ve wasted/enjoyed many hours in the past playing various interations of DOOM and Quake etc. and I know first hand how addictive these games can be. On the other hand I know that people can get “immersed” in anything including a text based Zork game (or chess for that matter), but I do have to wonder to wonder as the environments get increasingly real, and people submerge into hundreds to thousands of hours playing decidedly nihilistic and amoral characters, doesn’t the bright line between acceptable social and moral behavior get blurred?

If you spend the majority of your free time immersing yourself in being a killing, murdering, raping sociopath, is it truly reasonable to expect that this will have no effect on your real life personality, attitudes and moral compass?

2

People can say what they like , but we are heading into uncharted waters if someone can postulate total imersion in the next several generations with regards to video entertainment.

Affecting individuals personally , probably no more than we already have today. Something to keep an eye on, but not something I am gonna hit the personal panic button over.

Declan

3

On a related note, Blizzard Entertainment announced today it expects to release their newest game, Personal Panic Button, in second-quarter 2009.

4

Primarily, I believe that we take our clues on acceptable social behavior from more salient sources than video games - primarily family members, but also other social cliques that inculcate us into society at a young age. By the time someone gets around to playing video games as an adult, these mores have already been established, and something (like a video game in which you commit wanton violence) is viewed through this pre-existing lense, such that these video game actions are seen as appropriately absurd or unusual.

So, while a video representation of violence may be inappropriate for young children (who are still learning what is normal or appropriate), I don’t think a similar danger exists for GTA’s target audience. It is certainly possible that someone may play the game and get an inspiration to copy it, but this situation will only occur when the person is already predisposed to look favorably on the actions occuring within the game. In such a situation, the mindset was pre-existing, and likely originated from within a very disfunctional childhood environment. Nobody who is perfectly well adjusted will suddenly be inspired to destroy just because they stumbled on a video game depicting such an act.

Having said this, I do think there is a natural inclination to seek out, and enjoy, extreme, dangerous, or risky behavior, especially among males. Perhaps it is a testosterone thing, but I think that guys do seem to like generating an adrenaline rush. There are lots of ways of fulfilling this desire - driving too fast, playing sports, listening to loud music, etc.

If my hypothesis is true, then having increasingly realistic video games is a good thing, because it provides a safe outlet for people to satisfy their desire for excitement without resorting to truly risky behavior. There may be less need to speed down the highway or pick a fight to get your adrenaline rush if the same thrill can be perfectly simulated by a video game.

Thus, I support the development of increasingly realistic video games, and I support their free access to the responsible populace. Kids, of course, should be monitored by their parents, and troubled adults need to be helped. But limiting video games certainly wouldn’t accomplish this.

5

Just like the man who reads Sherlock Holmes and decides he wants to become a detective, or the man who reads Treasure Island and decides he wants to become a pirate, there will always be people inspired into action by fantasy. That the media of today are more immersive doesn’t change the fact that most people can still separate fantasy and reality. Those who don’t have that ability are a problem, but that sort of thing can only be stopped on a case-by-case basis. Like with the man who attempted to assassinate Reagan to impress Jodie Foster, the appropriate response was to lock the man up, not stop Jodie Foster from making movies.

6

I already immerse myself in a perfectly realistic alternate environment. A game world that is ruled exclusively by my own morals. Where I can indulge myself in some rather weird and deranged behavior that absolutely wouldn’t be socially acceptable or advisable in real life. Every night.

Must have accumulated at least ten thousand hours of playing time by now. So far I think my dreaming hasn’t done any harm to my personality, quite the contrary. What Atomicktom said, about providing a safe outlet.

7

It is reasonable to believe that these immersive games will not have an appreciable effect on your average person. The type of person that plays a game like GTA4 and then goes on a killing spree most likely would have anyway.

I can see where it could have some effect on the developing mind of a child. As I understand it, the part of the brain that can differentiate fantasy and reality isn’t fully developed until around about 6-7 and the reasoning section of the brain isn’t fully developed until about age 15. (I may be somewhat off on those numbers) I don’t believe that means we should limit game development, but that parents should educate themselves on what is out there and utilize the rating guides that come with games. There is a reason that games like GTA4 are recommended for ages 17 and up and parents need to exercise more control over what their children are playing and watching.

8

In a word, yes.

It is completely ridiculous to even suggest that a well-adjusted adult could be affected by a game. Why not say the same thing about KISS albums or comic books or horror movies or novels or Dungeons and Dragons?

Oh wait, people used to say those things and anyone that suggests it today is laughed at. As the old folks disappear, a similar attitude will emerge around those who think games will corrupt our youth.

This article might be enlightening:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=135499&page=1

9

Nope. Zero. Quite the opposite, in fact. Here .

10

Everything we watch, read or play has SOME effect. Otherwise why bother writing a book or composing a symphony?

But human beings are very complicated creatures. Any new bit of sensory information rattles around in our brains, richoceting off existing information and ideas in weird and random ways. So you can’t just assume that watching or playing X will lead to a person doing X in real life. One person might use a violent game as an outlet and wind up being more peaceful in real life. Another person might use it as a model and become more violent. A third person might be totally unaffected by it.

Over the last 30 years the game industry has exploded into a multi-billion dollar industry. At the same time violent crime rates have dropped. So even if violent games are influencing some people to be more violent they must represent a very tiny percentage of all gamers.

No, if we’re going to start clamping down on entertainment that triggers violent behaviors we should start with cases where we have a clear cause-and-effect relationship. For example, big-budget spectator sports like soccer, football, and basketball. Fans of these sports are regularly inspired to riot in the streets following a victory or defeat. No one has ever rioted over the outcome of a videogame. If we’re going to start cracking down on entertainment to preserve public safety, spectator sports would be a good place to start.

11

When’s the last time there was a riot caused by a sporting event in the US? If you count it, I can only think of the Pacers vs Pistons game a couple years ago. I don’t think anybody was even injured in that.

12

We can’t say there’s no effect, because after playing GTA all night, and then driving a real car, the thought of just ramming through cars at a stoplight is a very real one.

13

A few weeks ago after the Final Four…

http://theangryt.com/?p=519

Oh, and not only has violent crime gone down, but violent crime among youth offenders (the supposed “children” who emulate GTA when someone screams “Won’t someone think of the children!”) has gone down even more.

14

Forget GTAIV, what happens in a few decades/centuries when games are immersive enough to look just like being inside a movie, where you can touch, feel, smell and cannot distinguish a pixel’s worth of flaws in the perfectly realistic environment surrounding you, ran by a computer a billion times more powerful than your desktop today. A techno-induced lucid dream with 3rd party ideas and supremely high production values from the most brilliant artists and directors.

Will it significantly reduce crime rates? What about sex? Or will it liberate people and encourage them to explore repressed fantasies in the real life, because nothing beats meatspace?

In any case, the implications are significant. Very significant!

15

I believe this comic can illuminate the matter.

16

As discused on the thread about replicator technology, the odds of getting a “holodeck” or somesuch is jus about nil barring some sort of theoretical breakthrough allowing for cheap fusion or anti-matter based power. Thus, unless we’re allowing direct-to-the-brain induction of information, this level of imersion is just not going to happen.