Read post #47. This is silly, again.
You know, I actually expected post #47 to reveal that Shodan had in fact made the specification that he intended the “fuck you” interpretation of his sig exclusively in the Pit (forcing me to withdraw the thrust of my previous post!), so I was a bit surprised to find it was merely you making the same ludicrous point you made here with “this is silly.” To wit:
Do you think I’m saying that the foul, obscene, disgusting LANGUAGE of “fuck you” is what makes it Pit-worthy? Not at all. We can plainly use the words “fuck you” in any forum we please, as witness its use here with nary an objection from any member or mod. It’s the connotation of words–their intended meaning–that renders language suitable (or not) for the Pit. If I specified that when I use the works “Please stroke your forearm with a ostrich feather” to connote “Go fuck yourself up the ass with a pineapple,” and then proceeded to use it anywhere and everywhere, with my sig line linking for good measure to my post where I state my interpretation of that phrase, then the Mods would be entirely correct to conclude that I was expressing gross hostility every time I instructed a poster in MPSIMS or GD or anywhere to “please stroke your forearm with an ostrich feather.”
He’s telling me that he sometimes intends “Regards, Shodan” to mean specifically “fuck you,” and unless I’m mistaken that he doesn’t limit this interpretation to the Pit, I have a problem with its use, now that he’s been so kind as to explain his intentions with that phrase. By this not-so-clever revelation (it would be clever if he hadn’t copped to it so openly), he’s saying that he’s found a way to communicate “fuck you” to people in posts outside of the Pit, and I think any rationale for it beyond this point amounts to rules-lawyering, and not very ingenious rules-lawyering either.
Whatever the outcome here, I hope yams!! (give or take an exclamation point) is allowed to keep their sign-off. Always cheers me up whenever I see a “love, yams!!” at the end of a post.
He was told by SkipMagic that sigs are to appear once per threadon October 27, 2008. He was still using his signature multiple times at least up to November 26, 2008.
Perhaps I misunderstood the whole ATMB thread. I thought the gist of it was that repetitive text is a signature, and signatures are limited to once per thread.
You’re right.
Do you mean the signature, or the sign off that I type in myself?
As in, this -
Regards,
Shodan
Or
I know nothing about his religious beliefs, and I am not political in the slightest.
I have a hard time imagining that anyone who likes, or dislikes, “Regards, Shodan”, cares in the least whether you type it or insert it automatically.
But only as a reference to the phrase as it’s used, not to actually use it as an insult, in that form, directed at someone in particular. Using the phrase “fuck you” outside of the Pit is not objectionable unless it’s directed at someone. And then it’s an offence not because of the sentiment or intent per se, but because of the actual words. There are all kinds of ways outside the pit to express all kinds of reactions, including dismissive contempt. So long as one follows the decorum required in that forum, one is fine. “Regards” doesn’t violate any protocol, not in any forum, not in any meaningful context.
Yes, in the bizarre circumstance–which is not this one–where someone indicates, “anytime at all that I tell you, ‘thanks, you’ve been great’ it should always be interpreted exactly as ‘you are a vile piece of shit,’” then yes, it would violate established protocol, I guess. Since that’s NOT the case here, I’ll ask the same question I asked earlier. How exactly would you see this policed? If the post crosses the line absent the sig, there’s no argument. But do you mean there is a possibility that an otherwise acceptable post is rendered offensive by adding the sig line, “Regards”? What might that warning look like, exactly? Can you give me an example? If you can, I’ll retract my position that you’re being silly.
Again, “fuck you” directed at someone outside the pit is not a violation because it conveys a particular sentiment per se (although it might be), it’s offensive because it directs the words, “fuck you” at someone. Where your outrage is silly is in seeing Shodan’s comments as some kind of “Aha! Now we’ve got you!” admission. If a post is clearly conveying an unacceptable sentiment, something inappropriate to the forum, it’s fair game for censure. I can think of no real situation where adding the words “Regards” would do so, nothing short of the silly “when I say this, I always really mean that” situation you’ve constructed out of thin air.
No, that’s exactly the case I’m describing here, with the exception of the word “always.” I contend that “Regards, Shodan” is SOMETIMES to be interpreted as having the connotation of “fuck you” (and only because he himself admits openly that it does) and that it does NOT occur exclusively in the Pit (because he has not made that specification–yet). Your insistence on those specific words, and not the hostile personal sentiments they convey, is remarkable. Not only can I not say to my fellow posters “fuck you” outside of the Pit, I can’t say any of a great number of synonyms for that sentiment. I can’t say “Kindly copulate with an uncomfortable inanimate object,” I can’t say “Please insert a greased cylinder into any convenient orifice of your body,” I can’t say “Up Yours with gauze” without getting a well-deserved warning from the mods for violating acceptable standards of behavior outside of the Pit. IOW, any phrase that clearly has the hostile connotations that Shodan openly admits to conveying intentionally by the phrase “Regards, Shodan” (i.e. “fuck you”), is IMO clearly violative of the standards as I understand them.
I’m not outraged at all, btw. I’ve never complained about his sig line, whether typed or mechanically supplied, and just think it’s silly attention-whoring, is all, not worthy of discussion. He can have it tattooed on his forehead for all I care. I am slightly outraged that he is permitted to translate its meaning as “fuck you” in posts outside the Pit and then be permitted to keep using it outside the Pit, but only inasfar as I see this as inconsistent with the board’s policies as I understand them.
If some wise Mod would like to set me straight as to what I am misunderstanding (or **Stratocaster **is) about those policies, I’d be interested in hearing the explanation.
That’s my point, though. Without that word, your example collapses.
Not sure why. I’m conceding that there are hostile intentions conveyed all the time outside the pit, but they’re permissible because it’s done so in a manner consistent with the rules of the forum. I’ve seen innumerable exchanges in GD where the posters obviously couldn’t stand each other, where the contempt for the other person was unmistakable, but the thread puttered along without interruption so long as they played by the rules and didn’t cross the line. Sarcasm, :rolleyes:, dismissive “pet names,” and so on. I have never once seen a mod rush in to admonish someone for posting an outwardly civil close, no matter how insincere it appeared.
You’re mixing your metaphors here, so to speak. “Go fuck yourself” and “Kindly copulate with an uncomfortable inanimate object” are equally objectionable not because of the sentiment expressed alone, but because both directly, unambiguously insult someone. “Go fuck yourself” and “Run along now, sonny. This is clearly taking a lot out of you, since rarely have a I heard such an idiotic argument” may have exactly the same intention from the same poster, but one is right over the line, and the other, in a given forum, may not be.
Again, not being snarky, but can you give an example of how such a warning might work, what it might look like? Again, do you mean there is a possibility that an otherwise acceptable post is rendered offensive by adding the sig line, “Regards”? That’s what I’m reacting too–this is impractical to the point of silliness.
What I’m saying is that goofy sig lines–“Love ya!” or “Eat prunes!” or “I drive a sentient car”–are totally unobjectionable, except as they sorta define you as an attention-whoring doofus, and warrant no warnings at from mods, or any notice by anyone else, for that matter.
But they DO warrant warnings and removals and eventually banning the poster using them, if she or he notifies the world that his or her own translation of that sig line sometimes or often is intended to convey a sentiment that is not permitted in the forums it appears in. If you can’t tell someone “fuck you” in MPSIMS or GD, then you can’t tell someone, “BTW, I interpret my sig line about eating prunes to mean you can go fuck yourself.”
If we can, I think you’ll see a whole bunch of hostile, Pit-worthy sentiments expressed (with handy translation guides) outside the Pit soon.
I disagree. Posters are more than capable of conveying disdain without outright saying “Fuck you”. A pithy “Brilliant argument there, Poster-with-whom-I’m-arguing”, dripping with sarcasm, is the same as “Fucko Off, Jackass” as far as intent goes, just phrased more politely. Sometimes, I say “have a nice day” to mean that I hope the person has a pleasant ride as the earth revolves for 24 hours. Sometimes I semi-snarl “have a nice day” to mean I hope the person gets sodomized by a rhinocerus in the immediate future.
PRR, are you saying that because the sig has sometimes meant “fuck you,” despite the fact that no one really unambiguously knew that, Shodan can be directed not to ever use that sig again, regardless of his intention in a particular instance? Or are you saying that regardless of whether or not anyone could have discerned a “fuck you,” because he now admits he occasionally sent out a “fuck you” vibe nonetheless, he should face the opprobrium of the board? Drummed out of the corps for the pariah we now know him to be, and all that? Or something else? :dubious:
BTW, I should be ostracized as well. I have made comments outside of the Pit where I strongly intended to convey to another poster, “You’re an idiot,” but did so within the rules of speech of the forum. I have witnessed similar love notes from others, and anyone who thinks it’s a rarity doesn’t spend any time in GD.
But that’s the basis that posts get moderated on–the language used by the poster. You can say “Brilliant argument” and the mods will generally let that pass, no matter the obvious level of hostility behind the phrase. They won’t let you post, “Brilliant argument, jackass,” however, in GD because that’s too openly hostile. I think if you made a habit (as **Shodan **has) of semi-snarling your innocuous sig line AND if you announced before God and everyone that you intend it mean something decidedly NOT innocuous and not permitted in GD, I think you’d be in the same situation as he is in now, which I would find troubling. (Again, I’m troubled just because it seems that the more publicity this gets, the more obvious it will be that Shodan has managed to get a unique license to tell other posters “fuck you” via really childish rules-lawyering.)
How about if I were to announce that “Have a Scruptious Day!” in my sig line means “You fucking rightwing troglodyte, may you suffer the tortures of the damned” and then I used it, mostly in GD when I found myself having a particularly frustrating discussion with some fellow poster slightly to my right? Is that OK? Is it OK if I also link to this post, where I explain in detail my intended meaning of “Have A Scrumptious Day”? How about if I also throw in some other forbidden terms, racial epithets, gender orientation slurs and the like, and generally go to town? Can I then use “Have a Scriumptious Day” in GD and elsewhere and get away with the wholly disingenuous claim that it didn’t necessarily mean all that bad stuff I linked to–in fact, whenever someone objects to my sig line, in those instances and in only those instances, it means purely and simply “Have a Scrumptious Day”?
That would be silly rules-lawyering, right, and I should get bounced unceremoniously out of here. Correct?
I think there’s a material difference between adhering to the rules of a forum (“no insults”) and breaking those rules. if you used language mild enough to forestall Mods from jackbooting your ass into the next county, then you’ve most likely adhered to the rules of that forum. But if you announce that, by the term “I humbly disagree,” you are actually meaning “I will burn you alive and hear you scream for death if I ever see you,” I think the Mods will warn you (or IMO should warn you) to use neither the incendiary version nor the more polite version that you have translated for our understanding.
the thing is, to my knowledge, Shodan has never specified when he’s saying “Later, man” and when he’s saying “Up yours”. You and I could read the same post, and reach different conclusions on what his intent in that particular instance was. The actual words used remain the same. “Regards, Shodan.”
How is a mod supposed to say “Bad Boy” in post 12, but let it slide in post 17? I see it as no different than any other politely phrased barb commonly tossed around in GD. Yes, he has explicitly stated that sometimes he means it as an insult. I’m not seeing a way to ban his catch phrase short of outlawing sarcasm.
It’s not an ideal solution, but I guess (were I running this show, which we’re all glad I’m not) I would advise him that he could no longer use “regards” in any sig line, final phrase, etc. of any post in the future, having announced its sometime meaning, which is tedious to police but nonetheless impermissable. Of course he would then immediately (okay, maybe after making a big fuss, but eventually) start using the sig line “See ya!” or “xoxo” or whatever and we would understand that this was his new way of sporadically communicating free-floating hostility on frequent occasions. But at least he wouldn’t be on the record as having made that point explicitly, as he has at this point.
It isn’t obvious to anyone else.
What you are objecting to is that I am getting away with telling other posters “fuck you” by the fiendishly clever subterfuge of not saying it. And this is hardly unique - anyone else can avail himself of the same.
Look, make this simple.
From now on, whenever you see my sig, assume it doesn’t apply to you. If it is ever important that you know that I am talking to you, I can send you an e-mail or something. M’kay?
Regards,
Shodan
Not, not this time.
You seem to be under the impression that I’m primarily talking about your sig line, which I am, but only secondarily, as an example of rules-lawyering. As I said, do what you like with it, I couldn’t care less either way. But I would like a mod sometime to tell us if what you’re doing is okay. I guess if they say nothing, then what you’re doing is ipso facto okay.
Love,
Grandma
I like the way the sig is presented right now, as a true signature, with the black line and everything delineating it from the rest of the post. I wasn’t a fan of the “Regards” as it originally was, but this way makes it a bit less harsh, with the line separating it from the content of the post. So even though your comments may not be the nicest while posting, your signature was a uniform, standard comment that was added on as a SIG vs. you typing it out while you were constructing your post.
I admit I’d have no issues with you just posting “-Shodan” in every one of your posts if you really wanted to sign off on them. But it’s that “regards” that gets me (and it seems many others). I don’t mind the regards, but I do feel sometimes it’s not fitting with the content and tone of the post and it feels less than sincere at times. But you’ve also pointed out earlier it seems that sometimes you want it to come off that way. So I was going to say why not just read your posts and see if it truly is you sending regards and being polite, or if the post is a bit harsh and perhaps doesn’t deserve a "regards’ at the end of it. But if you enjoy using it in that way, then i can’t ask you to read over every post to determine how it’s going to come off.
So perhaps you can just use -Shodan? That’s not so bad at all. Or perhaps another word besides “regards” (but I’ve been thinking about it, and almost any polite sign off that follows a harsh comment or an aggravating post would come off as rude, so that might not work).
So perhaps instead you could just vary WHERE you use it?
I think if you didn’t use the “Regards” in the Pit or in Great Debates, that would cut down the complaints quite a bit, as your snarkier comments tend to come out in those two areas, and this way you can still regards people when the post can come off without the worry of having a hidden “FU” meaning behind it to some people.
:shrug: Not sure if that helps, but it’s a few suggestions.