MaxTheVool: I think the point was that the Ministry was taking a “see no evil” approach – it discarded or otherwise excused away evidence that didn’t fit their preconcieved conclusion that Voldemort wasn’t back. Even if they had taken either of the steps you describe, they would have just found some way to ignore the evidence those steps provided (most likely “Potter is nuts”).
And since the Ministry controls the only “respectable” media outlet, their view is the only one that gets heard.
I agree with whoever wrote that the wizard world needs a little collision with the muggle world in the area of separation of powers, representative government, due process, freedom of speech and press, and other restraints on government action.
Indeed, this book could easily be taken as a brief for conservative theories of government: it certainly illustrates why conservatives favor decentralized, local government over a centralized federal bureaucracy.
[spoiler]IIRC, Neville’s parents were tortured after Voldemort’s fall.
It was vaguely refreshing to see some of the 2D characterizations we’ve become accustomed to being shaken up a little. Snape becomes more sympathetic, Neville starts to come into his own, Ginny stops being the Hogwarts equivalent of Piglet…and of course, Harry becomes the sort of emotionally-disturbed jerk you’d expect a fifteen-year-old boy with his background and problems to be. And he screws up royally, not only by not learning Occlumency but also by leading his friends into a dangerous situation despite repeated warnings (and thereby getting Sirius killed). Snape seems to be right about Harry’s inability to swallow his pride, at least in some respects.
One quibble: we’re told that Voldemort couldn’t risk going into the Ministry of Magic himself to pick up the prophecy himself, yet the Ministry is empty enough for a group of schoolkids, a group of Death Eaters, and the Order of the Phoenix crew to waltz into the most secret area in the damn building and have a major battle, followed by Voldemort popping in anyway? So what was stopping him from quietly popping in, grabbing the prophecy and popping out again without all the hoohah about getting Harry and co. there? Did I miss something?
And finally, some updated predictions for future careers for our crew:
Hermione will be a Healer (note Ron’s comment that you need high marks in several NEWT subjects, all of which Hermione is taking). As a side guess, I’ll predict that she’ll either find the cure for lycanthropy Rowling has pointedly noted the lack of on several occasions, or at least pledge herself to its discovery.
Ron will become the Keeper for the Chuddley Cannons.
Neville will become an Auror, thus proving false his grandmother’s claims that he isn’t as good as his parents.
Harry will, as others have said, become the new DADA teacher at Hogwarts.[/spoiler]
Also, they’re old enough to legally practice magic outside school grounds (a big deal is made of this early on), unlike Harry, or (iirc) Hagrid when he was expelled…
That’s the impression I had. For what that’s worth.
They have some dont they? Alternative Press I mean, In GoF Rita Skeeter wront some stories for a magazein, ‘Witch Weekly’ I think it was called, about Hermione and Harrys relationship, and then there was that magazine that Luna’s Father owned just finished the book yesterday and I dont remember what it is called…
Oh and GMR, about Miss Norris, I think it was the chicken blood they used to write on the walls with… I think I remember Ginny saying she would wake up with feathers on her or something to that effect…
[spoiler]I really liked how Neville was fleshed out. I was getting sick of him always failing at everything he did. I also liked how in Dumbledore’s Army that the Ravenclaw girls were surprised when Hermione wasn’t in there.
I too also thought Mrs. Norris was long since dead, but as someone pointed out earlier that was just some random curse.
Umbredge was a great character. She was very easy to hate. I didn’t like how Rowling has been putting almost all the asshole characters as the DADA teacher.
Who else liked Professor Trelawny’s explanation of how she got the job? I am guessing that was her only real prediction. Having the centaur (can’t remember his name) take over her position was a lot more interesting. I wish that he was their earlier as he was significantly more interesting. I really loved how he was vague.
Sirius’s death wasn’t well done at all. I also felt used with all the other false deaths so when his came around it felt particularly empty. The follow up on his character at the end didn’t seem to be enough to cut it either. He had a lot of development in this book so it came as a shocker that he was the one who was going to be offed.
I also loved how Ginny started to come into her own rather than be the sniveling tag along from the previous books. It is good that you see her to be gaining power. I also liked how she is able to stand up to Harry more, especially during the part where Harry thinks he is being possessed by Voldemort and Ginny describes what being possessed is like. I see her being used a lot more in the future.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]I just finished this earlier this afternoon, and mostly I think it was really good, except for the fight scene at the end. I generally don’t like fight scenes by anybody and Rowling’s was just confusing. I mean, really.
The centaurs were pretty annoying. Do they really think that they’re going to be able to live their life completely separated from wizards and muggles forever, with that elitist attitude they’ve got there (even Firenze has it)? Eventually, they’re going to clash with the wizards, and they’ll have a difficult time adjusting.
Actually, maybe Rowling was setting us up for something like that, considering the attention she devoted to one of the centaur’s tirades against wizards.
Oh, and also, speaking of the centaurs, are there any female ones? I know centaurs walk around naked, so maybe Rowling didn’t want to deal with Harry et al. seeing female centaurs, but it’s kind of odd.
I think Rowling mentions that Umbridge does the ‘lines in the writer’s flesh’ to another boy (can’t remember–was it Lee?); would that imply that this was a regular punishment for her and wasn’t picked just because Harry is, well, Harry? If so, I would think that someone, even if Harry wasn’t willing to, would talk to a teacher about it.
Overall…I really enjoyed the book. I liked seeing all the different positions that one can go to upon graduating Hogwarts (or whichever wizarding school they go to); there’s a lot of variety.[/spoiler]
I’m re-reading the book, and something just struck me:
[spoiler]Did Dudley see the Dementors?
I re-read that part very carefully when I came to the trial, in which Fudge states that Muggles can’t see Dementors. I just can’t tell whether Dudley actually saw them or not. While it implies that he didn’t, from his shocked mumblings about the cold and such, it doesn’t flatly say that he * didn’t * see them.
Wouldn’t it be a kick if Dudley turned out to have a little magic in him? [/spoiler]
I think there was a good reason why Dumbledore didn’t tell Harry the original prophecy.
[spoiler]Although the reader suspects that Voldemort will die in battle with Harry, and Harry himself believes he might die against Voldemort, it’s different from being foretold that, without question, without prevarication or evasion, you will die unless you kill Voldemort and that nobody can do this for you. That may have been one reason Dumbledore didn’t even want Harry growing up in the wizarding world at all.
And speaking of self-fulfilling prophecies – as said before, if Voldemort hadn’t been trying so hard to kill Harry, he wouldn’t have given Harry some of his power – there’s more. If Voldemort hadn’t continued to try to kill Harry, Harry wouldn’t have learned the Defense Against the Dark Arts needed to fight back.[/spoiler]
Rhum: Re: Spoiler boxes, I hate the darn things, too, but I started this thread rather early in the game. Since there’s nothing I hate more than being spoiled accidentally I thought I’d better include them.
[minor hijack]
(I even hated hearing that one of the characters dies, because it made me keep waiting for it. Same with The Sixth Sense. If nobody had told me about the “huge plot twist - you will be sooo surprised” at the end, I wouldn’t have started thinking: "You know, the only thing that would surprise me was
if Bruce Willis was dead himself."
thus nixing the surprise at the end.)
[/minor hijack]
Back to the book: I was wondering about one thing: It said that you couldn’t “take the prophecy off the shelf” if it wasn’t about you. But it sure seemed like that when you broke the bottle you could hear the prophecy. So maybe Voldie and his supporters should have done that in a quiet moment. Then again, maybe he didn’t want anybody else to hear the prophecy.
And merrily, the usage of “Tom” struck me as hilarious, too
Thanks, gex gex. That does make sense. I wish Rowling had written a bit about Molly’s reaction to the twin’s quitting school, but for right now I’m inferring that she’s mostly okay with it, since they were with her at Platform 9 3/4 to meet Harry and Ron off the train at the end. And judging by their new dragon skin jackets, I’m guessing their new shop is doing well.
I think Umbridge is going to show up again, once she recovers from her centaur experience. And I think she’ll show up on Voldemort’s side.
On an unrelated note, Umbridge is an exact depiction of an ex-coworker of mine - right down to the short curly hair, the toadlike face, and the viciousness hiding behind an innocent little ever-so-polite persona. Creepy.
[spoiler]Finished it last night. I REALLY enjoyed it… my fave Potter book (beating out 3 by a fairly decent margin). I liked the build up and suspense of it all. And the psychological drama being played out in Harry’s head.
Another reason I liked this book best is because of the fleshing out of all the characters. Whereas some may have been cardboard cutouts, few are now (except Draco and Voldemort & the Death Eaters - hey, that could be the name of a new band ;)). Ginny was fleshed out as a strong woman. I think that Harry might marry his way into the Weasley family eventually. Neville was just awesome! Training extra hard when Lestrange broke out and then fighting hard as anyone. Snape’s teasing being shown really made him more of a symphatetic figure. I get the feeling that at the end Snape might end up sacrificing his life for Harry.
The death was over in a heartbeat, but the death wasn’t the big thing (which is why, I believe it was revealed), but Harry’s REACTION was the big thing. His outbursts at Dumbledore was brilliant. Rowling is showing him not as a perfect hero, but as a person who does have flaws, who does get angry, and who is getting frustrated. Harry is the MOST fleshed out character. He actually acts like a 15 year old. It was incredible to see the big hero of the series act like a jerk some of the time. Great move by Rowling.
Oh, and who couldn’t help but love the big fight between Dumbledore and Voldemort. Great stuff![/spoiler]
Hmm. I’m not sure about this. When Sirius first gives the package to Harry, he tells Harry that he should use what’s in the package to contact Sirius if he needs to. Now, at that time, Harry thinks Sirius is taking too many chances, and should just stay at Grimmauld Place. He’s worried about Sirius’ safety if he leaves. I don’t have the book in front of me for an exact quote, but when Sirius hands him the package, Harry thinks to himself that he absolutely will not contact Sirius that way because he doesn’t want to put Sirius in any danger. So he puts the package in his pocket, and promptly forgets that he even has it (kind of on purpose) much less that it’s a way to contact Sirius. In the end, I think this just contributes to Harry’s blaming himself for the whole thing - he feels that if he’d just remembered that package, Sirius might be alive.
I’m not saying it makes sense, just that I’m not sure it’s a plot hole.
