[I am not sure if this is GD material, so move it as you see fit, mods. Thanks. :)]
Recently, I came upon some disturbing writings posted on the Web that look like they came straight out from Japanese porn movies with sexually deviant themes (e.g. rapes, forced bondages, making women into sex slaves, etc.) Very scary stuff.
Now, if the writers were Japanese, I guess it would be okay, since they have some uncanny ability to disconnect their perverted fantasies with reality. Even with all that messed up porn flooding the country, Japan remains mostly safe for women.
But they are not. Was I looking at the writings of serial sexual offenders, or are they just harmless? In other words, how likely is it for them to act out these fantasies?
Well, here’s your problem. You’re assuming that this extreme form of entertainment is “flooding” anything. You may as well look at the most extreme 0.001% of any continuum and it would also be a mistake to assume they represent the whole.
Besdies, you’re also assuming that other people, the Japanese, need an “uncanny ability” to keep their fantasy and real lives seperate, which seems to assume that non-Japanese lack this ability. Are you Japanese and claiming this ability? If not, are you going to go out and rape because your read this fiction? Then why would you assume others would? That seems pretty arrogant and simplistic.
Stephen King has made a living writing oodles of horror fiction. Does he, a former high-shool teacher living in Maine, strike you as a wannabe murderer/alien demon?
As for the overlap of sexual offenders and sexual fantasy writers, I couldn’t say, but I’ll give you ten-to-one odds that the writer of any given piece of internet fiction is not himself/herself a violent felon.
Have you been to Japan lately? If not, based on what did you make your accessment?
Did you bother to read what I wrote, at all?
First of all, there are documented instances of murderers and rapists write out what they want to do before they carry them out, IIRC. Secondly, by your reasoning, one in every ten of these people will be an insane, violent criminal. That’s a lot.
I unfortunately don’t have time right now to dig up cites and I’m sort of reticent about searching for something regarding sexual offenders at work, but I’m of the opinion that it’s possible for someone to both compose and enjoy the type of “disturbing writings” you refer to in the OP and not become a serial sexual offender. In my research I’ve certainly come across several examples of murderers and rapists “rehearsing” their fantasies before committing them (see Brian King’s collection Lustmord: The Writings and Artifacts of Murderers), and while they’re horrific to read I don’t feel reading or writing these fantasies is entirely to blame for their actions in real life.
I think the problem lies in a disconnect between fantasy and reality with the individual prone to becoming a serial sexual offender. There are many more factors involved than just the consumption and production of pornographic writing; I think some people are more prone than others to consider acting on their fantasies in the extreme. Many people are able to experiment with fantasies of “sexually deviant” practices like rape and bondage with safety and comfort, certainly without becoming sexual offenders.
Laura Kipnis’s Bound and Gagged: Pornography and the Politics of Fantasy in America might also have something to add, but I don’t have access to my copy right now.
Well, I think you’re angry because I’m shooting down your premise and now you’re coming up with nonsense to try to keep your premise alive.
I’ve never been to Japan but you’re use of the word “flooding” implies that this form of entertainment is drowning out all others, which I seriously doubt is that case. Violent porn may be alot more common in Japan than in the U.S. (or anywhere else) but you’ll have to prove that it is (or is becoming) the defacto standard Japanese entertainment.
Yes, but I don’t think you thought very hard before you wrote it. You said that despite their “messed up porn”, “Japan remains mostly safe for women”. Why did you write that? Did you think Japanese porn writers are the major perpetrators of violent acts against women and that it is “uncanny” that they are able to resist? Do you have similar beliefs about porn writers in other countries, who lack this “uncanny ability”? If so, then there should be a strong correlation between people who write violent porn and who are violent criminals. I’m not aware of any proven correlation and so I doubt the connection you’re trying to prove exists.
I may have misinterpreted you, though, becuase I thought your position was “despite the large amount of violent porn in their society, Japan remains mostly safe for women.” This is what I was addressing when I asked you is you felt more likely to commit violent crime based on what you had seen. If not, then why would you assume others lacked this ability to tell fantasy from reality (whether or not they happen to be from Japan)?
Sure, there are. And there equal or greater numers of murderer and rapists who don write out their plans, and there are large numbers of authors who write out descriptions of murder and rape and never actually commit them. You’ve got a group of writers and a group of criminals and some overlap, but no way to tell where a particular person will be. Your argument is pointless.
Well, excuse me. For one, I never used the word “insane” (did you bother to read what I wrote at all?). I’m not claiming that one violent porn writer in ten is a criminal. Rather, I’m stating that given a randomly-selected porn writer, I’ll give you ten-to-one betting odds that he is not a violent criminal. Would you rather I gave fifty-to-one? A hunded-to-one? Am I guilty of not expressing enough mathematical disdain for your illogical argument? I’ll try to do better in future.
Even your thread title suggest a false dichotomy (either the writers are “real freaks” or they want to be). The more likely third option is that they write this fiction because it is enjoyable and profitable. Believe it or not, there are a great many people who enjoy this fiction without seeking to emulate it, and they are functioning productive citizens.
Your argument is tired and flawed and I get a sadistic thrill out of knocking it down, chaining it up, and whipping its ass. I won’t put my tentacles in it, though. That would be icky.
I see that I missed an important piece of information :o
The difference between these writings and Stephen King’s books, say, are they are targeted at real people, mostly celebrities.
Instead of “I want to do nasty things to imaginary woman,” you get, “I want to do nasty things to Meg Ryan.”
Sometimes they go a bit further, like “I want to tie Meg Ryan to this special spreading frame, then sodomise her a couple of times, then do this, then that, then after awhile she’d become my slut and will bend to every single one of my sexual whims.” ::vomit::
I was not aware that there was a proven link between the ready availability of pornography and violent crimes against women. If that were true, then wouldn’t Denmark and Sweden be leading the world in rape?
But anyway, first you have to prove that the folks who wrote that fiction are in fact “sick” and “demented”. Which is where the point about Stephen King comes in–some people would say Stephen King is “sick” for writing stories where, for instance, a clown reaches out of a sewer and rips a kid’s arm (leg?) off. But most people realize that he’s just cranking out the words, giving the people what they want, filling a market niche. So how do you know the author(s) of your “sick, demented fiction” aren’t just cranking out the words, too, also merely filling a market niche?
Writers of Harlequin Romances don’t believe, or act upon, what they’re writing, either. At least, AFAIK they don’t normally put away the laptop after the final kiss in Love At The Laundromat and immediately go out to try to find a lissome (or brawny) dry cleaners attendant to seduce…
The difference between Stephen King and these people is these people aren’t doing this for a living. They post their stuff on the Web. I don’t think they can even know how many people read their writings, and who read them.
I’m not trying to be merely contrarian about this, but it seems to me that you came in here with a basic assumption (“these people are sick!”) that needs to be proven, or disproven.
Seriously, first and foremost their writings are unprofessional. Secondly, they aren’t posting them on their own websites, it’s not like they are promoting their books or whatever. Thirdly, do you think these writings (“I want to bind and gag Meg Ryan blah blah blah sodomise her a few times etc.”) would be published? Meg Ryan may want to do something about that.
Well, I’ve never been particularly impressed by the literary levels exhibited by the porn I’ve seen. “First he bound her, then he gagged her, then he did this, then he did that, take that you bitch, oooh, you’re so big…” etc.
Maybe I just have entry-level taste in porn.
Well, where ARE they posting them? Isn’t it time for a link or two? Or maybe some secret Google code words?
Meg Ryan? Egad.
The humour in that statement works on so many levels.
Well, maybe only one or two.
Anyhoo, now that Urban Ranger has added a qualifier to his original statement (that the fiction in question involves the names of real people), I’d say it still doesn’t prove that the writers are freaks, or wannabes. Rather, I think it proves they are lazy writers. Instead of offering up prose describing their female characters, they take a shortcut and just name a celebrity, assuming the physical details are already known to the reader. Heck, I once even read a charming little story in which the female cast members of Friends are tortured to death. I didn’t assume the author was preparing to try kidnapping these actresses and trying these acts for real, and I don’t see why the OP has reason to believe differently, his own squeamishness notwithstanding.
