Relationships: how do you fight without hurting each other?

If it makes you feel any better, Susan, you’e definitely not alone in trying to figure out how to have a healthy, long-term relationship. My husband and I are not much for loud fighting, but we’re in the middle of an impasse over an ongoing issue - I want to leave our city because I’m very unhappy here, but he doesn’t want to leave because it’s his home. Neither of us is wrong, but we’re not getting anywhere with it either. One thing I’m learning is that healthy communication is an ongoing process, not an overnight change.

For a while, I thought my husband was being dismissive and condescending to me, too. I finally talked to him about it (it was just small things, but it built up to something that was really bugging me), and he had no idea he was sounding like that. He doesn’t talk very well over the phone, either - he’s quite abrupt. Some of the adjustments you two will make will be you getting to know his styles, and when he’s just tired or pre-occupied, or when he is really being a jerk. Which is not to say he’s allowed to be condescending when he’s tired; just that if I got mad every time I talked to my husband on the phone, I’d never stop being mad, and he really doesn’t mean anything by it - he’s just not a phone chatter.

One thing Dr. Phil says that I do agree with is that we teach people how to treat us. One thing you can always say to your husband when he is being sarcastic or condescending is, “Please don’t talk to me that way.” If he asks what way, your response can be something like, “What you just said sounded condescending to me.” Note that you are not calling HIM condescending, just telling him what your experience is. By not accusing him, you’re not backing him into a corner, either.

I think it’s important to remember, too, that this man truly loves you, and he doesn’t want to hurt you. I would bet that he feels terrible that he is disappointing you in these ways. One of the principles of doing no harm to anyone else is not allowing them to hurt you, either, because it hurts people to hurt other people. Help him to not hurt you by not allowing it.

Hey, where’d my paragraph on the email go? I must have cut and not pasted it.

ANYway, I think communicating by email is a good thing, too. It gives you both a chance to be fully heard, and allows you to take the time to say exactly what you mean. After you email him, give him some time to digest it, and then ask him what he thought of it later, leading to (hopefully) a calm discussion of the issue.

That certainly could be true. Often the pattern goes like this: One of us will bring up an issue. If I don’t immediately see his point of view he goes into hostile mode. After an hour or two of talking in circles something happens to disrupt the pattern - usually me crying so hard I can’t speak - and he gets very quiet for a few minutes then apologizes for hurting me. After that we can usually come to a resolution in less than 5 minutes. I’ve wondered if he just needs to cycle through an angry/frustrated phase and if he could do it just as well if I left for a few hours.

That’s good advice. I’ve done the first quite often (“please don’t talk to me that way”) but I’ve been at a loss as to the follow through. Usually I get backed into a semantic discussion as to where his comments rate on an objective condescension scale, which is useless and leads to me saying unhelpful girl-things like “maybe it wasn’t what you said but how you said it”

I was half-expecting this thread to fill up with people telling me to leave the bastard, especially since you aren’t hearing his side of the story. I appreciate that most of you can recognize that this is a fairly normal problem and not necessarily a deal-breaker.

He sounds like a good–nay, great–guy with a problem in open communication and resolving conflicts. If you can get over that hurdle–one that I think most couples, especially at your age, have do deal with–then I’d hope for a long and prosperous union. He just needs to learn that he doesn’t have to operate like the people he grew up around (and possibly there are things you need to learn as well that will prevent setting him off). Can you get him to go to some kind of couple’s therapy, as a favor to and/or respect for you?

Stranger

As crazyjoe mentioned, he dislikes counselors. His mom has been to several worthless therapists (one even hit on her in his office). We also went through 6 pre-marital sessions which he loathed. He doesn’t like feeling judged, and he usually needs to observe someone for a very long time before he’ll really talk to them. This doesn’t exactly work in a therapy-style meeting.

I think we’ll do just fine talking through it ourselves. And Fish, even though he won’t read a self-help book on his own he’s ok if I want to read it and talk to him about the ideas.

I sent the email yesterday (before pseudotriton’s analysis) and it was well-recieved. I think he’s still processing it because he doesn’t want to talk about it yet, but he has been extra-attentive since he got home yesterday, and he got up early to make me breakfast this morning.

He won’t read it even if a man recommended it and said it was very useful? :slight_smile:

If you do pick it up, it warns you not to use the book as a bludgeon, or as proof that you’re right and he’s wrong. If he sees enough in the book that he agrees with, or that is helpful to him, he might read it himself. I hope you find it as informative as I did.

First of all, know that the goal is not Winning. The goal is Harmony.

Speak calmly, using language like, "When this happens, it seems that ---------, and I feel like ---------. Is that what you meant to do?

Most of what I might have said has already been said in previous posts.

Well, there’s a lot of advice above about what contitutes a ‘fair fight’, but it seems to me the problem is your SO isn’t convinced that’s an important concept. I haven’t got any direct advice of how to deal with this in a relationship, in fact I remember being somewhat of a doormat in my past relations myself. However I’ve been working in a call center since, dealing with abusive customers for a significant portion of the day, so I think I have some pointers for dealing with those who like to step across your boundaries.

First of all you mention thinking you just need a thicker skin. Not so. In fact, you probably should have a thinner skin. For example, if some guy calls me a name I react to that. That usually results in him realizing he’s gotten carried away and in changing his behaviour. If I would try to have a thick skin I might glaze over it, and he would do it again, and again (with worse and worse words). Then by the time I’d finally be fed up with it I would have to call him on calling me names not once, but multiple times, which will be interpreted as a much bigger attack, only putting the guy on the defensive. Not to mention I’d not be able to hold back my irritation, backing him into a corner even more. Having a thick skin only makes the situation worse. So don’t worry about having a thin skin. In fact, it might even be a rationalization for avoiding a conflict you really shouldn’t avoid.

When your SO crosses one of your boundaries react immediately, stay calm and rational, state your concerns in clear and simple language, and do not continue the conversation until the issue has been resolved.

Him: You friend was behaving like a crazy bitch the other day.
You: Whoa, whoa, that kind of language is out of order!
Him: Ok, you’re right, I’m sorry, what I meant was…

Of course now you’re worried about what happens when one reply isn’t enough and you get engaged in a discussion that you won’t be able to win. Well, I don’t see this as something you should be discussing at all. This isn’t a nice romantic conversation where both parties should be sharing their thoughts and feelings; this is a fight. You get to decide what your boundaries are and I don’t see why a SO should have any say in that. If he can’t accept them, if he wants to argue, then he is simply not respecting your boundaries and that amounts to not respecting you.

There’s a rule I learned in a sleazy marketing class which says “three times no is no” (the first time a customer says ‘no’ he’s most problably trying to start a negotiation, the second time he might mean the price is still to high, but by the third repeat there’s a big chance the customer really really means “not interested”). It’s a rule that come in handy in these type of situations. If your SO does not respond to your objection simply rephrase it. If necessary, rephrase again. But after the third time he’s just being unreasonable. That means you don’t have to remain reasonable either. Just use the “broken record technique”:

Him: You’re so smart aren’t you? You have it all figured out!
You: Are you being sarcastic?
Him: Do you have a problem with that?
You: Yes, I think it’s hurtful.
Him: Well I disagree.
You: It isn’t very respectful.
Him: Using sarcasm is who I am!
You: Just don’t use sarcasm with me.
Him: You’re trying to change me!
You: Just don’t use sarcasm with me.
Him: [fifth excuse]
You: Just don’t use sarcasm with me.
Him: [sixth excuse]
You: Just don’t use sarcasm with me.

You: Just don’t use sarcasm with me.
Him: sigh. Well okay. I still don’t see what’s wrong with it, but I’ll try to refrain from using sarcasm with you.

The above also shows a great way to draw attention to bad behaviour without confrontation: ask for clarification. “Are you being sarcastic?”, “Are you angry at me?”, “Why did you just interrupt me?”, “Do you realize your tone comes across as condescending”. Just alerting someone to his behaviour or tone is often enough for them to affect a change. Or else, as the problem persists you become more confrontational.

Of course, you’re just becoming aware of the problem; you’ve been thickskinned for way to long. Anything you say will not just be interpreted as a request to change behaviour, but also as you reproaching most of his past behaviour. You need to make sure he knows this isn’t about the past, but about the future. You’re email is a good start. In the mail I would also adress his statements that you’re trying to change him, something like this:

Honestly Susan, you think about how much you love the person. You step outside of anger. That’s the best advice I can give. Anger is fleeting, love is eternal.

I like 4.66’s response! Setting boundaries is good for you and it’s good for your relationships! Try a search at Amazon.com on setting boundaries.

BTW, I don’t think anyone has mentioned keeping your sense of humor. Sometimes when my husband and I are arguing, one of us will say something funny and it puts a new light on things.

4.66, where have you been for the last year?

Well thank you, Zoe! I don’t have a credit card and I finally found someone who would lend me his to pay the subscription. In the meantime I’ve been lurking.

You have a good point about humour. Having a fight will build up a lot of tension en then the tension will keep the fight going. Cracking a joke will break the tension and allows you to start over again (calmer this time). As the other party will also be bothered by the tension, it doesn’t even have to be a good joke. In fact, often it’s enough to just start laughing very hard en keep on laughing until the SO joins you.