No, I believe the world and mind are co-dependent.
Maybe I should’ve said “that there is and I feel like I am”
I put “internal” in quotes because that’s the word we use to locate mind in our perceptual space. It’s not really internal (that wouldn’t make sense), it’s logically prior.
I could have sworn you were saying “they” are one and the same.
Isn’t mind just an idea too? If it isn’t, what is it? Can an idea have an idea?
Cosmosdan, great post, I agree with all of it completely.
Bupkis, I do not talk about the mystical, I talk about the spiritual. There is a very large difference.
I talk about what I exprienced, and will tell you as much as I know.
Yes, it is hazy, mainly because I don’t know the specifics of it.
I am told the Creative Force that made this Universe and guides it, is made up of CUs, consciousness units, these units are smaller than atoms by far with the characteristics of self-awareness, curiosity, and love. They form at different densities and different velosities to form all things – material and spiritual. Now you know what I know. Still pretty hazy, but not any more hazy than many science theories. The Force is both universal and personal at the same time. We are a part of the Force and contain the whole as the whole contains the part. Holistically speaking.
The Force is called hundreds of different names, in our culture “God”. Now I won’t defend this definition because I know little more than what I have said.
It is not important to understand the Force, it is important to learn about it and from it. Love is unconditional. We are living in the physical to do just that, to learn about ourselves and who we are. When we look at others, we see ourselves. When we harm others, we harm ourselves, when we help others, we help ourselves.
Upon physical death we return to the Force where we can still learn and grow, or we can return to the physical to learn. Learning in the physical is accelerated by linear events, moving in waves of seemingly good and bad happenings.
Now that I have brought the wrath of the skeptics, and the religionists also, upon me it is time to finish this post.
No, now I know what you’ve been told. Who told you this, and why do you believe it?
Yeah, I’m being kind of fuzzy on this. I don’t really know but I place them somewhere between being co-dependent and unified. Non-dual maybe? There’s a formulation in Vedanta that goes something like this:The world is unreal.
Brahman is real.
The world is Brahman. I don’t understand it either, but it resonates on some level. (You could loosely take unreal/real as contingent/necessary and Brahman as mind.) Perhaps it depends on the perspective one takes – the world is a product of mind and the mind is part of the world. Both formulations are rational views of an arational reality.
Good questions, I don’t know. I guess I tend to think of ideas or principles as efficacious beings not just static hypostases. But, I’m just throwing thoughts out there. I’m no authority.
lekatt, I may not go along with you 100% on what you say but I can’t disagree either. As you say, it’s still hazy: material/spiritual distinction, you/I/we, etc – I don’t know what these mean. Regardless, it’s refreshing to see attempts at bringing rational discernment to bear on spiritual matters here on the board. While it may seem kooky to some, we’re all just trying to make sense of things.
Pot, meet kettle.
Taking another stab at this: mind is the space of reality, the stage on which ideas play out. It is also the source and sink of ideas. How ideas arise from mind, persist, and fade back into it is a mystery to me, and probably always will be.
As far as hypocrisy, I never claimed to provide crystal-clear and air-tight explanations, just that I’m trying to make them clearer and tighter. When I don’t know something I’ve been forthright about admitting it.
Don’t expect total consistency in what I say but by all means, please point out contraditions. I tend to go with what makes sense at the time and don’t keep track of whether I’m adhering to my own “doctrine”. Realizing that you’ve taken on opposing positions that seem equally reasonable and then trying to resolve the conflict can help a lot in developing a robust worldview.
Bupkis, pardon my attitude. It’s been an enjoyable discussion. It’s territory worth exploring.
Thanks for being civil and acknowledging my attempts at the subject.
I received this info from spiritual beings not focused in the physical. Call them angels, guides, light beings, whatever, we all have guides that watch over us all the time. This particular bit of info came from Seth, as written down by Jane Roberts in the “Seth” books. All you ever wanted to know about the spiritual and then some. Why do I believe it? Because it dovetails my personal experiences with spirit. Seth writes some of the most beautiful prose I have ever read, and I have read a lot. His discription of God takes only a couple of pages, but is so beautiful it often brings tears to the reader.