Let me guess: Heaven’s Gates and Hell’s Flames was the title of the play.
I am a conservative Christian who does believe in witnessing, but I can’t stand that play. It’s hamfisted and simplistic and is all about being able to claim large amounts of “converts” … and not about drawing people into a genuine day-by-day relationship with a living God. (I don’t mean that to sound like Christian double-talk – I mean it sincerely.)
Sorry you had to experience it.
Nancy Reagan has all the answers.
Just Say No.
When that doesn’t work, invite them to the full moon ritual, but let them know ahead of time, it’s totally BYOG (bring your own goat).
Like most, this has also happened to me. Lost friends when I left the church and didn’t want to come back after 13 years heavily involved in it.
I find asking questions a good way to end the discussions.
Questions? I hear you ask, yes questions!
When they share something with you ask ‘why?’ or ‘how?’. Most Christians I know (and I know alot) cannot answer that past,
“well, … um… I just know” …or… "Well, um… you just have to have faith… etc etc.
Question everything, ask, why,how,when,where. Many Christians don’t believe past a heart thing, and don’t make it to a head thing.
They may run off to find an answer, and leave you alone for a while.
That was not meant as an insult to Christians. I’m sorry in advance if that is taken badly. It’s just how I feel.
That’s also a good suggestion, superstar. People who are trying to convince you of something should have some way of backing it up. (Even if they have to say, “You know, I can’t remember. I’ve known that for so long, I take it for granted. I’ll look it up/think about it for a bit and let you know.”)
I’ve had several people try to convert me, and it’s particularly interesting because I’m a Christian already. My response (which won’t help nom-Christians) is usually “Sorry, I am a Christian already. Yes, I said I am. Anglican, actually. No, I don’t want to become Baptist, thanks. No, I don’t worship the Pope. You’re thinking Catholic and they don’t worship the Pope, either”.
One summer I got something like twenty leaflets.
I agree with you, superstar. A lot of Christians (maybe other faiths too? I don’t know) never get past the “heart” stage, and it’s a pity. We’re supposed to be able to talk about why we believe what we do- 1st Peter 3:15- and I think that includes both intelligent conversation and knowing when to push off.
It was pretty funny- during World Youth Days here in Toronto last summer, there were enormous numbers of Protestants out on the street trying to convert Catholics from their heathenish ways.
Sorry for the quasi-hijack.
Thanks Guinastasia,
It’s always nice to have the actual quote instead of the paraphrase my silly brain can dig out.
And hi to you too, Naz, I don’t post as much as I would like, but with an active 15month-old, and a full time job, my browsing the boards is rather time constrained. Some threads do really get to me, though, especially if I can help out in a small way.
Peace to you…
You know, I saw more than a few comments up there that really distressed me as a Christian, and they were the ones along the gist of: When my Christian friends heard I wans’t interested in their witnessing, they stopped being my friend / didn’t hang out with me anymore / looked down their noses at me…
To everyone who had that happen, I’m very sorry. It must have been very disapointing and perhaps even hurtful. You have my sympathy.
[rant mode addressed at Christians here]
What the &$#*&! ?? 
:mad:
What kind of Christ-followers are these people to lift their noses at their <quote>friends <unquote> because they don’t want to listen to witnessing? Jesus hung out with not just his friends but all the non-believers, sinners, prostitutes, corrupt officials, etc. he could find; not the <quote> righteous <unquote> folks, whom he even frequently took to task…
This to me is exactly like a guy refusing to be “friends” with a girl because she didn’t want to come accross, and would suggest they were not interested in a friendship per se.
How the dickens are they supposed to be examples of Christ’s welcoming unconditionnal love to all if they shun their own friends because they told them to pack up the witnessing?
Such folk seem to me to be dangerously close to being the smug, self-righteous, publicly religious Pharisees Jesus himself called “White-washed tombs, all beautifull on the outside, and full of corruption on the inside.”
[/rant mode addressed at Christians]
Pardon the outburst, folks…Had to get that off my chest; apologies if I got carried away there… have to remember everyone, including Christians, is human and a sinner… maybe I’ll go get a nice cup of tea… yeah, that’ll help me calm down…
This kinda stuff is why I stay closeted about my beliefs now. I’ve had well-meaning folks make such a nuisance of themselves by calling, sending cards and invitations, sending messages through family members. Someone repeatedly left tracts on my bicycle. I know they, in their hearts, mean well and think they are doing a good deed, but I just don’t want to deal with them anymore.
Thanks, trupa, for saying so eloquently what I’ve been feeling for years, but have not been able to put into words.
Just reminded me of when I wore my WWCD (What Would Cthulhu Do?) T-shirt to work on a casual friday. My conservative Catholic (young punk) manager made it clear to me that he was very much offended.
Yeah, too bad. Everyone else was offended by your holier than thou attitide, bub. (Reality Note: We’re not all Catholic and you have no right to be angry or offended by that fact.)
And “Anyonghasaeyo” to you too! First let me preface this statement by stating – as you may or may not know – that the TLOTMC (The Land of the Morning Calm), where I currently reside, is the global epicenter for prosletyzing efforts worldwide, having practically brought it to the level of a fine art both at home and abroad. So I totally know what you’re talking about and can relate.
While I am a Christian myself, I still know what it’s like to be accosted by prosletyzers – whether they be the ones knocking on your door, meeting on the street or talking with at work – from quasi-christian sects and other ad-hoc groups such as Church of Christ, Seventh Day, Jehovah’s Witness, Morons – excuse me, “Mormons” – Moonies, Commies, etc., you name it, they’re all here in force.
I personally have met some prosletyzers, however, that are actually quite likeable, but still can be tiresome if not a little too pushy for my tastes. The best way to keep such individuals at bay without offending them, I think, is to use reverse psychology.
That is, if they start persistently asking you to do things that you aren’t interested in, return the favor by persistently asking them to join you in activities that you know they probably wouldn’t go for, e.g., bar hopping, taking in a stripshow, cruising for chicks, ultimate fighting, whoremongering, etc.
Here’s a good role play that you can use in such situations:
Prosletyzer: Hi whatsyourface! That was a really great shindig we went to yesterday with my church wasn’t it?
You: Yeah it sure was, wasn’t it?
Pros: Well, I was thinking, since everybody liked you so much, howabout joining us Friday night for a Bible Study with out church group?
You: Hey, thanks a lot! But I was thinking about hitting a few bars and getting trashed after work, wanna’ come? And afterwards, we can go whoremongering together!
Pros: Ahem, uh…well…thanks…but…uh…no thanks. OK bye!
And believe me, this really puts the pisser on the most diehard of prosy’s!
The “morons” dig is not excused, and will not be repeated in IMHO.
Understood?
Religious wackjobs are the least of your problems.
When your friend gets sucked into Amway and wants to come over to discuss “a wonderful business opportunity”, my suggestion is to turn off the lights, dive under the coffee table and stay put 'til the coast is clear. At the first opportunity - get your phone number changed and unlisted. Better yet - move.
Not all people who try to convert you have the same motive in mind.
Some people, if they truly do love you, may be concerned about the welfare of your soul. These are good people to keep around, provided gently saying, “I appreciate that you care about my spiritual well-being, but this is something I’ve thought a lot about and I’ve made my decision; I can’t be what’s not in my heart” works. If not, the best thing to do is try to continue to be gentle.
Some people, I’m convinced, really are looking for brownie points from God or whoever it is they feel they need to impress. In these instances, I guess you just kind of have to match the forcefulness of your response to the forcefulness of their approach.
Then you have cretins, like a guy I dated a few years ago. I hadn’t gotten further than “I appreciate your concern for my soul --” when he broke in with, “No, it’s not that. It’s just that I’ve decided to go back to church and I want you to support me.” (The implication being that I could not support him if I did not believe as he did, which was a totally false assumption.) The proper response there would have been, “Get the ---- out of my apartment,” but I’m afraid I was a bit wishy-washier than that. (Ridded of myself of him soon after that anyway, so all ended well.)
Good luck!
A very pushy witnessing Christian pushed me right over the edge one time. She was a neighbor who was an assistant in the school where I taught. We drove to school and back together every day.
For years I had been treated off and on for clinical depression and was having trouble with it again.
I don’t know how the conversation got started. She was a fundamentalist and I am an Anglican. I didn’t believe any of the horrible things she was saying to me, but emotionally I just couldn’t handle being told that the devil was speaking through me. I started crying and couldn’t stop and was hospitalized for five weeks.
Their “senses of obligation” don’t outweigh my right to privacy.
“All things work together for the good,” however. on the very first day that I did not ride home from school with her, she was in a car accident and the passenger side was crumpled and smashed.
You never know.
My best friend is a devout Christian and only once has he tried to get me to see things from his point of view.
I told him quite politely that we had been friends for very many years and I wanted it to stay that way.
He got the message and has never tried to convert me since.
Christianity ?
Amway?
Feh, I can fend these off with a mere dirty look.
It’s the scrapbooking lady that is trying to drag me into her cult.
This is the kind of story you could start mass-emailing to counter all the fundy glurge. Make sure to have an ASCII rainbow at the end.
Huh. My Mennonite friend has a cool “Sell Your Soul For A Cookie?” Cthulhu t-shirt. I want one.
PRNYouth- there are several different presentations with the same theme (unless they all come from the same organization & are just retitled)- HEAVENS GATES-HELLS FLAMES (come to think of it, I wonder if that was indeed retitled since the Spaceship Mass Suicide), FINAL DESTINATION (also done at our church- BEFORE the movie of the same title) and just last month THE GLORY AND THE FIRE.
I’m also conservative Christian, heavily involved (usually) in the drama at my church- and I always find an excuse to beg off of participating. While I appreciate what is trying to be accomplished & I hope the decisions made go on to become thoughtful commitments to Christ, I have lots of reservations, both pragmatically & theologically, about these presentations (especially since I am an "in-the-closet Hopeful Universalist"L)
AAAAGHHH! Heretic!!
points at FriarTed
Someone summon the Spanish Inquisition!
