I don 't think it was supposed to be an insult to Red, Tom. And he didn’t seem to take it that way either.
YMMV and I’ll shut up now.
-XT
I thought the context made it clear it wasn’t an insult. But I’ll try to be more careful of such things in the future.
An excellent contribution, Sam. It is truly frightening to hear some of the young’uns and those on the extreme left express sympathies toward communism. The practial difference between communism and fascism for the governed is like the difference between a left fist and a right fist. In fairness, especially to the less mature, Bush has gone a long way toward making communism seem palatable by making our Republic such a miserably despisable place.
Hence my reference to a joke and the lack of an official Warning.
I’d rather slap your fingers for touching the fruit than break your wrist with my nightstick for taking it.
Gotcha.
Hola, lanelin. Glad to see you’ve joined us as a member.
And yes, I was aware of the Platt Amendment, as I am sure you are also aware that the US didn’t recognize or like Presidente Ramón Grau, the man who repealed said Amendment and wrote your new constitution granting multiple rights to your farmers and lower classes – which promptly had him labeled as a “commie.” However they did get along swimmingly with thug Fulgencio Batista, who forced the former’s resignation. Batista, BTW, for all intents and purposes was The Man in Cuba from said time to the beginning of Castro’s dictatorship.
I realize you don’t need it, for those that might be interested, I think this a pretty good time-line as to the events in Cuba up to the revolution:
Wow. Lots to digest there, thank you. Like I said, I never liked the guy or was friends with him, so, no, I had no idea what his family connections were. But yes, no kidding, that’s one family that’s sitting pretty no matter what happens after Castro.
PS-No, I took no offense to Moto’s response as I realized the context in which it was made. OTOH, I can’t fault Tom for issuing the warning as this forum’s rules are pretty clear when it comes to insults – even if unintended.
Not trying to fence-sit, just my POV.
PPS-I didn’t preview thus I missed the exchange between Tom and Mr Moto. Disregard my comments then. Glad that’s over and done with.
And I said they were different in what way?
Honestly, dude, read the fucking thread before you let the knee hit the bottom of the desk. The OP asked about Cuba, I said something about Cuba. Where and when did I try to justify the USA’s relative diplomatic stance? Nowhere, that’s where. So save the sarcasm.
Wouldn’t be the first time, mi amigo. Even at an age when I should know better, I still get caught short sometimes when the Officially Sanctioned Version of American history they fed me in school turns out to have been more nuanced.
In this case, the History Told by the Winners is that we only wanted to help the poor, oppressed sugar cane workers overthrow their oppressive colonial overlords, in the name of democratic revolution (which we invented). They deserved our help because they’d started the effort themselves, they could run the place themselves, and just needed a few more arms and a few more bodies. Y’know, just like the French helped us. Hearst’s proto-tabloid papers and their lurid stories about Spanish atrocities helped stiffen our resolve. A few Rough Riders, a few copies of *A Message to Garcia * and the job was done. Well, a couple of years later, they did after all need some time to get a government organized, just like we needed the Articles of Confederation.
Oh yeah, the Philippines, Guam, Puerto Rico, stuff we had to do just to get those luridly-atrocious Spanish people out of control there too … well, ya know, McKinley really wanted to liberate them too, but ya know, they just weren’t ready yet, and there was this Kipling fellow living in Vermont telling us about “The White Man’s Burden”, so just kinda had to become a colonial power ourselves, out of our superior sense of moral obligation only, you understand.
To the OP, it’s seemed pretty clear for a long time that the word “Communist”, no matter its intended meaning, if any at all, is still too much a Pavlov’s Bell for too many US pols. So is the name Castro. The next guy just has to publicly renounce the word (even if nothing tangible changes) and be named something else, and the place will be overrun with McDonald’s, Coke, and Carnival Cruises passengers.
Except, thing is, every other country in the world has normal trading relations with Cuba. You think American companies are the only ones who know how to set up fast food restaurants, sell soft drinks, and run hotels and cruise lines?
These things already exist in Cuba, they’re just not owned by American companies.
You think the reason Cuba is filled with ancient American cars is because of the embargo? Except Japan makes plenty of perfectly serviceable automobiles. No, the reason Cuba is filled with ancient American cars is that Cubans are forbidden to buy cars, only people who already owned cars were allowed to keep them. So if your one car stops working you’ll never get a chance to have another. So you’re obligated to keep that pile of junk working any way you can.
And so forth.
I actually learned more Cuban history in Canada than I ever did in Cuba. The teaching of history, at least history between 1902 and 1959 is not very detailed in Cuba.
That asshole couldn’t croak before I quit smoking!? I’ll never have a cuban cigar!