and what happens when the Canadians, Europeans, Venezuelans, etc. see massive numbers of residents getting what amounts to enhanced welfare courtesy of the US? Just as in the states people up here are often less than sympathetic to people getting free money. Can you say “lazy welfare bum”? (yes, I know, strictly speaking it would be different from welfare legally, but not in the minds of citizens seeing all these newcomers getting money for nothing).
and do you REALLY think your electorate would go along with the massive increase in taxes or loss of assets that implementing this scheme would require? The fact that many people don’t like blacks (both up here and down there) doesn’t mean that they would be ready to put their money where their mouth is.
Honesty, could you please answer my question since it was obvious you were inspired by the assassination of Malcom X at the hands of the Nation of Islam?
What if, like Obama, you are black but your ancestors came here after slavery was abolished? Do they get reparations too? If not, why would I have to pay if my ancestors didn’t come to this is country until the 1900s? If yes, then these aren’t really reparations in the sense the word was originally used.
Under this hypothetical, if the US has to pay, that means all Americans kick in their share. All Americans includes all black Americans, by the way. Just like any other government expense.
An additional question. Since Obama’s mother is white and he has some Irish ancestry, his father was Kenyan and never a descendant of African slaves, is he still covered under the reparations plan?
And how about me? Are we going back to the “one drop rule?” I have at least one slave descendant in my long family history. The family has been in this country since the late 1600’s, and they/we are a horny lot.
But I am currently an overly entitled, upper middle class, very white guy now. My family tree looks like a spiders web.
Would the payment be based on percentage of African blood and time of oppression.
What if I have 4 white great-grandparents and 4 black ones? Let’s say one of the latter is from Mozambique and never set foot on the US. Lets say another was born free in the North in 1854. Let’s say another was born free on former-slave parent in 1877 and one was born a slave.
What is the formula?
Does having white ancestry mean you get less or is it irrelevant?
What if your African ancestry connects you to those African who captured/sold other Africans to Europeans?
I was more interested in Honesty’s view of whether or not the Nation of Islam should compensate Malcolm’s family for murdering him as well as his feelings regarding Louis Farrakhan and the way so many people who professed to be admirers of him were also fans of Farrakhan.
In retrospect, I wish I hadn’t mentioned the last part mentioned in Manning Marable’s biography.
This is laughable and these sort of arguments only serve to aid Republican straw-manning when they liberals and Democrats believe in reparations. By this logic, reparations are justified from Algeria, Tunisia, and Libya for Italy and Spain in return for the Barbary Coast slaver raids.
Racial affirmative actions does little to help most blacks and instead drives a wedge between working-class whites and blacks than the right-wing can exploit. It would be better for progressives to focus on improving the lot of all Americans through strengthening and expanding social programs.
Forget lobbying your representatives in Arkansas for reparations. How can everyone so casually ignore the elephant in the room? Are you all so callous?
I for one am appalled to hear that there are slave-holding states in the Union in 2014. How can we possibly discuss reparations while human beings are still being held in chattel slavery in states like Arkansas?
I agree with you here except I don’t believe the States will be complicit in allowing blacks to gain power locally. I think you’ll get what you have now: previous slave-holding, Southern states scrambling to curtail suffrage of African-Americans while the federal government looks on with mild indifference.
[QUOTE=Toxgoddess]
What if, like Obama, you are black but your ancestors came here after slavery was abolished? Do they get reparations too? If not, why would I have to pay if my ancestors didn’t come to this is country until the 1900s? If yes, then these aren’t really reparations in the sense the word was originally used.
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Yes. Because you’re American, too. Perhaps.
[QUOTE=Canadjun]
. . . The fact that many people don’t like blacks (both up here and down there) doesn’t mean that they would be ready to put their money where their mouth is.
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I think if it’s explained in a Fox News-like way, people will come around and believe it is the right course for the country.
[QUOTE=Miller]
If the American electorate “clearly” wants to get rid of black people, why do they keep electing a black guy president?
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I don’t know, as a running joke to show that a black president is ineffective? Obama can’t get anything done because the previous slave-holding states have sent a clown-car filled with anti-government ideologues to grind Congress to a halt. You have the Speaker of the House claiming that the House of Representatives needs to “cool it” on legislation this year. WTF? Wasn’t 2013 the least productive Congress since its Founding? The Constitution lays bare for all the purpose of the Legislative Branch: it is to legislate. Only when a black man comes into the White House does the majority of the electorate don the cloak of austerity and paucity. It is only when a black man walks in the White House does the majority of the electorate decide that nothing Obama does will succeed. Even in 2014, the electorate will remain unchanged and vote for same anti-government ideologues to occupy Congress.
I think instead of using blacks as proxies for whatever theoretical cultural war the South has with the North or vice versa, it would be better for the country for us - the blacks - to leave you all to your business. Once we leave, I am sure the electorate will find necessary strength to vote to finally fix their roads and realize the importance of education funding, unemployment insurance, and other necessary things that have been cut in order to ostensibly “punish” us.
First, Affirmative Action does help blacks*. Second, Affirmative Acton combined with the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act would’ve been an imperfect but suitable compromise to reparations. Thirdly, because the majority has reneged on Affirmative Action, reneged on the Voting Rights Act and is wavering on the Civil Rights Act, it has become clear that the majority does not embrace the values they purported to have in the 1960’s. Finally, expanding social programs is a non-starter because the majority has ostensibly labeled anything that helps or uplifts other poor Americans as “pork”.
Btw, stop asking blacks to cough up their race and, bam, you don’t have to worry about racial preferences. Get rid of the racial boxes: Problem solved. I think this is a very important point, it’s white people that’s asking, begging, and demanding black people reveal their race. Not the other way around.
Yes.
No.
While I think the struggle for black and gay equality are similar, I don’t think they are comparable in scope nor in breadth. To mention the sexuality of the biographer smacks of smearing unless there is something substantive I am missing.
I think it’s the wrong course. I don’t want black people to leave! I don’t want families broken up because some are black and some are not. I think we have a long way to go, but we’ve made progress, and I think we can continue to make progress.
And if we are paying because society has been unfair to them…well (a) there are a lot of others who can also make that claim, starting with Native Americans and (b) I don’t think that, say, Oprah could claim society has treated me better than her. I am sure she has experienced discrimination in her life. But since she is a billionaire and I am not, I’d find the claim tbat I somehow owe her something for the advantages I supposedly have that she doesn’t, rather disingenuous.
