Georgia Dems seem to have their shit together way more than Florida Dems in general but everything Stacey Abrams has been doing seems to have worked.
Of course in 2018 all it really led to was the GOP having to cheat harder to win.
And yet they’re completely at the mercy of the Republican party and can’t get anything of significance done. Think about how good republicans are at getting out their (bullshit) message and motivating their voters.
The democrats have reason and truth on their side and they can’t do it even 20 percent as well. They clearly need new leadership and better messaging.
ISTM like the Dems are barely winning an optics battle that should be a landslide.
It’s not even like they’re dealing with batshit crazy people. They’re dealing with obvious hypocrites pretending to be batshit crazy people. Biden had it right when he dinged Trump for acting all tough and then not wanting to get near his unmasked supporters. They need to keep hammering that message home hard.
Gavin Newsome might lose his recall basically because he comes off as a hypocrite for some of his social escapades while telling people to stay home. And everyone knows about Obama’s party. People need to know every time a Republican does anything to show how truly afraid of covid they are.
This is what I come back to. The “justice” message only goes so far. People gravitate to strength and power, which is why I advocate a kind of left wing authoritarianism (let’s call it pragmatism). We will not win this fight by being kind, by being polite, by being bipartisan. We are surrounded by reptiles. We need to break out the Bowie knife. We’re going to have a fight. There is no way around it.
Metaphors are all well and good. What does this look like in Real World terms?
What do you think motivates Democrats?
There just has to be an understanding among enough Dems and Dem-leaning voters that we’re in a fight for survival. I don’t think bipartisanship and institutional sanctity messages really sell that well. The Dems hate Republicans for being the unapologetic authoritarians that they are but they ought to learn how to use that to their advantage, the way that FDR and Truman and LBJ did. They didn’t just appeal to wokeness; they went out and they kicked ass, they twisted arms. They went macho. That’s what the Dems need to do.
Speaking as a reliably Democratic voter, I don’t need or want my party to play out some testosterone-soaked revenge fantasy of metaphorical ass-kicking to relieve my anger and frustration at Republican corruption and irresponsibility.
I want Dems to be honest about what Republicans are doing to the country and why we need to stop them, but I can skip the assault metaphors and the swearing, tyvm. We had enough of that bullshit from the former guy. And we don’t need Democrats going down the PR path of Look At Us, We Can Do Aggressive Macho Posturing Too While Still Being the Good Guys.
I’m sorry, but your vision of the democratic party, the party system, is probably obsolete.
This is why I am increasingly confident that Republican fascists will succeed. They know exactly what they want; what they envision doesn’t conflict with their morality. We’re confused, trying to figure out how we’re going to build a coalition, trying to make sure that one branch of the coalition doesn’t offend the other. The Republicans don’t have that problem. They eliminate those who are soft.
We need to start having some testicles. We need to have the capacity to be mean. If we lack such capacity, we will be prey, eaten by the apex predator.
Thank you. I don’t get the defeatist bullshit vibe here in the thread. We (dems) won. We fucking kicked ass last election. Yes, we could have kicked ass more but STFU and enjoy for a fleeting second FFS.
Then do the next fight but first stop the defeatist weakass thinking. The ones we were waiting for are us. Get with it and stop the whining.
I agree that the Democrats need to focus on concrete strategies that we can work together on, that will actually benefit the voters. ISTM that the current Administration and Congressional Dems have had some successes at that. We also need to be honest and uncompromising about Republicans doing really shitty stuff and fostering hatred and delusion; and that we could be doing a better job on.
Which is not necessarily a great strategy for them, considering how their voter bloc is shrinking. Yes, Republicans might well be able to make corruption and authoritarianism an effective substitute for actual majority popular support, and I’m not advocating complacency about their fate. But ISTM not at all firmly established that just booting people out of your tent whenever you disagree with them about anything is a sufficiently productive approach that the Democrats should consider imitating it.
Oh, FFS. No, we do not need to sound like teenage boys, trying to seem tough by talking about our testicles and being “mean” “predators”.
After the last four years I am SO TIRED of politicians constantly invoking that Trumpy childish-macho swagger. I am desperate for elected officials who can behave and govern like grownups. Tough and decisive and no-nonsense grownups, sure. But for the love of Og, please, enough with all the adolescent posturing about metaphorical testicles.
I have to agree.
I am never more embarrassed than when I get suckered into resorting to conflict either verbal or physical. I don’t admire it in myself and I don’t admire it in others. Being able to debate, discuss, or disagree in a civilized manner is what I long for in a leader. The bluster of Trump and his kind is not only transparent, it is quite pathetic. Anyone who has ever faced any real danger knows that Trump could never fight his way out of wet tissue paper bag. The underhanded, hypocritical dealings of McConnell and his ilk is equally disgusting to me. As far as I am concerned, McConnell is a bully who shies away from any real opponent – then goes back to his neighborhood and picks on old ladies and children. Double dealing and macho posturing is what has the GOP resulting to cheating now even though the system is already rigged to favor them.
I heard a cable news talking head one time say that what truly made America great was that we are reluctant warriors. That true Americans are like the archetypal cowboy stereotype, men of few words who avoid conflict and respect women and are good citizens - - - but, when things go sideways - lookout man, because they CAN take care of business (they just don’t think it is the way civilized humans resolve conflict).
As the famous American Kwai Chang Caine taught us nearly fifty years ago, avoid violence at every turn. If you must defend yourself, check before striking, strike before maiming, maim before killing. Life is precious and even professional fighters want to be remembered for more than who they could beat up. (If the example I chose is not “American” enough for your tastes- I will also recommend Robert B. Parker’s Spenser as an example of someone who tries endlessly to resolve things through nonviolent means - - but who when violence is called for, is more than adequate for the job.) They are archetypes because they do represent so many non fictional Americans who are just trying to do what is right and not be mislead by political and religious leaders who use them for money and power – but could not possibly care less about them.
Marvel’s Captain America is of course another classic example of this “not looking for no trouble but not taking any either” ideal.
Exactly!
It is a false dichotomy that one must either give shit or take shit if you will please pardon the language. Most people do some of each pretty routinely. The Cap is a perfect example of a polite, well mannered man who is as tough as he needs to be and never picks a fight himself. On the other hand, he never slinks away from one either.
So let us seek leaders who are thinkers and action oriented – but will avoid violence and petulance and childishness. Those who will stand up to injustice and to bullies when necessary- but will never pick a fight to score points or appear tough. Those who are genuinely tough never care about demonstrating it!!
Problem is, you’re not the target audience. Neither am I. Face it, you and I are going to vote Democratic no matter because of these issues.
It seems to me that, on the Democratic side, there is a loss of thinking in terms of tactics vs. ideals. We think we can get to the ideals by adhering to the ideals. We should be thinking in terms of how to convince people. That’s what political campaigns are.
I hate how little Democrats have been pushing against everything Republicans are doing. Why isn’t there an attempt by the media to shame everyone who won’t wear a mask, calling them weak-ass wusses who can’t stand a minor inconvenience? Why are we afraid to play hardball and, say, nerf the filibuster? Why don’t we fight our hardest to stop the voting rights and gerrymandering? Why, when we can see all these people dying around us, are we not the ones who seem the most angry?
Yes, sure. Ideally a dick-waving contest wouldn’t be necessary. But that tactic works on a good number of people. We’ve got to stop acting like we can just do the right thing, and that alone is enough.
Pretty much any time you meet someone who would otherwise side with the Democrats but don’t support them, it’s because they are largely seen as toothless and ineffective. We don’t get things done, and we don’t fight back nearly as hard.
Yeah, I’m tired of the posturing. But it’s not going away. It’s just being used by one side for great effect while the other side doesn’t combat it.
If the Democrats were a true leftist party, they’d be doing so much more of this stuff. They’d be pushing every single item to the people. They’d have a whole lot more fight in them.
So far, it seems to be Trump, with his
(God knows he he does not seem to have any genuine boldness or bravery in reality.)
He brought out even more voters for the GOP in 2020 than he did in 2016, but he also inspired far more opposition than he inspired loyalty. Those that still kiss his . . . “ring” are known hypocrites who do not believe or respect him. Both Lindsey Graham and Kevin McCarthy called him out and publicly said what they believed – but then both of them reversed course and gave him what he wanted for their own sake.
I submit that the left does not want anyone like any of them. The one Republican I continue to admire is Adam Kinzinger; not Romney, not Cheney, not any of them (certainly not Trump or McConnell or McCarthy).
Biden finally talked a little smack the other day over Afghanistan. Still I believe he is the most empathetic politician, the most kind hearted and sincere guy to hold such high office. In one sense he can be tough when need be- but he goes far out of his way to be agreeable and find common ground. I do not think that is weakness, I think that is wiseness.
Okay, so I found one Ipsos/Spectrum poll conducted August 6-13 (n=1358). toplines
5. How much do you support or oppose mask requirements in the following places in Texas?
| K-12 schools | Total |
|---|---|
| Strongly support | 54 |
| Somewhat support | 18 |
| Somewhat oppose | 11 |
| Strongly oppose | 17 |
| Skipped | * |
| — | — |
| Total Support (net) | 72 |
| Total Oppose (net) | 28 |
The poll did not ask for party ID but the sampling was apparently partially weighted by party ID demographics from the 2019 ACS Survey. I’m not 100% sure what that means, or if it is possible to draw any conclusions about whether Texas Republicans support school mask mandates.
~Max
Another interesting data point from that survey is that 60% of Texans surveyed want it to be mandatory for students 12 and over to be vaccinated before returning to school.
That seems high to me, so I question the overall sample. But perhaps the Texas GOP is confusing the noisiness of masks/vaccine opposition with the quantity of it.
MHO, which is worth exactly what you’re paying for it, is that polls which survey the average voter don’t really matter to GQP pols in Texas and similar states. They sold their political souls (not really sure whether they have any other kind) to the fringe years ago based on the fringe’s ability to GOTV, and now that the fringe has turned lunatic they have no choice but to go along to survive.
The rhetoric they spout may be genuine, or it may be an attempt to avoid having their own faces eaten.
Well, it is supposed to be a representative sample taking party ID into account. But I can’t find any data from the 2019 American Community Survey on party affiliation in Texas. Pew says about 39% of adult Texans are Republicans, 40% are Democrats, and 21% other.
Applying that split to the Ipsos poll, and giving elected Republicans the benefit of assuming as many Republican voters oppose masking as possible to fit the data… the spin here is that banning mask mandates pays off in the R-primaries.
28% of the population would be Republicans who are opposed to school mask mandates. 11% of the population would be Republicans who support school mask mandates. That lines Abbott up for a landslide primary win if this was the only issue on the ballot in 2022. His governance on the economy is broadly popular in Texas so he has other things going for him in the general election.
~Max
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is a fictional character.
I’m pretty sure this is also a fictional character.
This ^.