You grabbed Cheesesteak’s line right fast…but your original intent to smear Democrats is quite clear.
That’s good, but it doesn’t excuse your counterfactual blaming of liberals/Democrats/“the left” for most of the violence and hate.
You’re not helping.
Sure, the post smeared Democrats, if you didn’t read the article he linked to. Is it a shitty right leaning website? Sure, I suppose, I don’t read it. But the article was entirely about Republican supporters shutting down Pelosi at an event in Florida.
Is Scylla so clever that he thinks he can smear Democrats with a link to Republican crimes? Maybe he is, but only if we are vapid enough to not bother looking at his cites.
Should we take him at his word that he’s being neutral? It doesn’t really matter, because if he posts about Republicans acting badly, we should at least recognize that fact.
You think I posted that as a smear against Dems?
You didn’t bother to click the link to see what it said before you criticized both me and the source for it.
That was a stupid mistake. But hey, it happens.
Now, instead of showing a little integrity and admitting your error, or just disappearing and pretending it didn’t happen, you are instead going to try to assert that I posted a link showing bad Republican behavior in order to smear Democrats?
Would you like to stick with this plan, or just walk it back, admit error and move on as an adult?
I won’t insult you anymore, either way.
At least the Republicans are attempting to minimize the possibility of escalating violence at protests.
Attendees of the rally will be allowed to carry guns during the rally?
What is there to excuse? Why would I want one?
What if you find out that left/right violence is a wash? My observation seems to be that incivility generally trends toward those who have the fewer hands on power, though not always.
There appears to be a lot of anger sloshing around right now. And a whole lot of people who are not involved in it, both on the right and the left. Some denounce incivility, or greet it with stony silence that amounts to about the same as denouncing it.
So, the question you must ask is whether violence/ugliness is a feature of one ideology or the other. Do the Democrats advocate for or foment riotry? Do the Republicans? Not is there more violence from one side or the other, but is there more support for it?
If you cannot resolve that question reasonably, from a balance of sources, then you must look down, into the ideologies themselves, to see which promises to do more good for or harm on the country.
There will always be angry, fearful people like asahi and even-tempered assholes like Shodan, but whose ideas make more sense?
Let’s just say the site wasn’t formatted for easy reading. Not to mention a bunch of photos where what was happening in them wasn’t clear.
If you summarize what’s at your link in a confusing or misleading way, let me clue you in: some people will be confused or misled. Doubly so if the stuff at the link itself is a pain in the neck to sort out.
ETA: Having crap on both sides doesn’t make a crap website any less of a crap site. So using it as a cite is still a crap cite.
Don’t get them confused, it was Scylla that had the reputation for swallowing Greek seamen.
So, it’s a bad cite, with a bad link presented badly by me, and so really my mistake?
No. Sorry.
Who cares? I am happy to be gracious should he acknowledge the error, and happy to move on should he not. It’s not a big deal.
Just please don’t blame me or the cite for his error. That’s just not fair.
Well if you recognize that what you said was stupid, and you retract it, then good for you and I’ll retract this criticism.
It’s not stupid. I am making an argument based on careful consideration of evidence that caused me to change my mind from its previous stance. I feel confident in it enough that I have posted it here to be challenged. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong, and I will think something else.
If a light won’t turn on and I think it’s the bulb but it turns out to be the switch, I am not fucking stupid, I do not require an excuse. I would simply be mistaken. It happens to me often.
There is no moral judgement associated with it.
A more apropos analogy for what passes for your argument would be “If a light won’t turn on and I think the way to fix it is to unscrew the bulb and stick a fork into the socket…”
Yeppers. 
Don’t worry about that. I’m blaming you for your own error, regardless of what anyone else did or didn’t do. 
Let’s be honest here, folks.
Regardless of how you feel about conservatives, they are at war with you. They have been for a long time. They don’t like you. They don’t want you and your sophisticated friends from other countries and other sexual orientations in their country. They despise you.
They are not at war with me, I’m a successful white, straight guy.
Ok, let’s see what we got. First things first, ler’s Review an define. Earlier I posted several links, and over the course of several posts this is what evolved:
“ I voted against Trump and for Obama once. I was looking forward to voting the Democrat line in November.
However, I am against hate. It’s dangerous and non constructive. If this continues and escalates, I think people will get killed and we will lose freedom. I don’t think it’s right to reward or give in to this behavior.
Unfortunately, I think these attitudes are very mainstream.
Trump does not justify this.
I will be voting against Democrats.”
“I’m not talking about the past. I am talking about where the hate and violence is coming from now.
I have not seen anything like this in my entire life.”
“I think race relations and tolerance went from pretty good to awful because of the left’s obsession with identity politics, intersectionality, and grievance. They are and have been responsible for the current tide of hate. The vast majority of incidents involving hate speech, destruction of property, violence are all coming from the left.”
“I’ve provided links to instances of hate speech an violence against Reoublicans. They are getting harassed, shot at while playing baseball, there are 30 something attacks or attempted attacks on Republican elected officials this year according IBD in an article I linked to. Democrat staffers are doxxing Republicans an their kids. There are several instances of hate and/or violence every day coming from the left. As far as I can tell, identity politics is nothing more than a tactic designed to promote hatred and racism.
There is nothing like this on the right. Donald Trump being the odious asshole he is, and defending a Nazi a year ago, should not balance the scales in the eyes of any reasonable person.
I’m voting against Democrats because of the widespread racism, hate speech, violence, and intolerance which they have adopted, largely in the last 18 months.”
“
How many Democrat elected officials have been physically attacked in the last 18 months? How many have had their family doxxed? How many have been accosted and harassed at their homes and restaurants? How many Democrat speakers need security on Campus or have had their invitation to speak revoked?
I’ve provided links to recent violence and hate speech from the left directed at Republicans.
If you say there are more coming from the right directed at Democrats, it should be easy to produce these examples, especially if, as you say, they have already been documented here.
Let’s compare them?”
“The attacks and threats both physical, and non physical against prominent Republicans/conservatives, including actual attempts at violence, doxxing, public harassment, are unmatched by anything the right is offering against prominent Democrats/ liberals.”
So, what I have been saying is pretty defined and pretty specific. I am saying that things have changed in the last 18 months (let’s nearly double that and agree that we arelooking at incidents that to the start of 2016, but no earlier.). I am also talking about attacks and threats on prominent political figures and elected officials. In my 3rd quote, I am more general in turns of talking about hate speech and violence without qualifying it, besides that, I am pretty consistent. And, in the 5th quote where I laid down the challenge to Iandyiii I was also specific. So again, what we are looking for is hate speech and violence, violent action and threats against prominent political figures and elected officials. I’ve made reference to violence, doxxing, threats, and harassment, so that;s what we are comparing.
Before we go into the comparison I can see that there are going to be at least two potentially contentious issues;
-
What is a threat? This is a toughie. I consider a threat a threat when we feel that it was meant to be taken seriously and literally. I don’t consider Kamala Harriss’ saying she was going to ‘take out’ Trump as a literal threat, and I consider most of the other threats against Trump made public ally as rhetorical hyperbole. I am not so sure about the Georgetown professors calling for the castration of Republicans. I don’t think it’s an actual threat, but it is hate speech. I don’t really think Tom Wolf had a real threat made against him with the golf cleats, but perhaps others disagree.
-
Who owns who? Nazis. Nobody likes Nazis. They are widely condemned by pretty much everybody. Are Republicans responsible for Nazis, and white supremacists and plain old garden variety racists? I’ve thought about this, and my answer is no. They are pretty much condemned by everyone, and they don’t get to be a part of the political conversation. The problem with this is that the Nazis et al have parked their asses on the right. The right says that they have no control of this, and can;t help it if they vote Republican. This would be a really good argument, except if you want to make it your President can’t be saying that there’s good points on both sides. If you spit in their face and they still vote for you, that’s not your fault, but the mere appearance of catering or tolerating these shitheads is pretty bad. The Republican’s contempt has not been as strong as it should be, especially after what Trump said. I weigh this all out and I still say Republicans don’t own everything Nazis do. But, I do think they own what they do in the political arena against the left and/or Femocrats for purposes of this discussion.
Antifa is very much a part of the political discussion. They are not widely and generally condemned by the left, so their political hatespeech and targeting of prominent Republicans/ conservatives does count.
Ok? Let’s get to it!
-My first link shows two Minnesota Republican officials physically attacked this week.
-my second link shows 5 actual attacks (including the shooting of Svalise,) and several threats, and suggests that Breitbar has a database of 550 attacks. We will look at the database later.
-next up, I have the hat speech thing with video
-than another actual attack by a paid democratic Soros operative against Kristin Davison
Also in the news today is this:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/37314/watch-pelosi-endorses-collateral-damage-against-ryan-saavedra
Pelosi says;
“
I think that we owe the American people to be there for them, for their financial security, respecting the dignity and worth of every person in our country, and if there’s some collateral damage for some others who do not share our view, well, so be it, but it shouldn’t be our original purpose”
So, collateral damage is ok with her.
Maxine Waters said;
“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up and if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them, and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere."
Calling for harassment
And this;
‘Former Attorney General Eric Holder said earlier this month that when Republicans go low, Democrats “kick them.”
Clinton said in an interview with CNN this month that Democrats can’t be civil with members of the Republican Party because Republicans disagree with the agenda of the Democratic Party.
“You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about,” Clinton said. "That’s why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and or the Senate, that’s when civility can start again. But until then, the only thing that the Republicans seem to recognize and respect is strength’
So let’s look at the Breitbart database:
Each of these items has a link to the news story. I’ve disallowed 171 of the 603, as not reaching the criteria I previously discussed. That’s 432 incidents that do.
That’s 455 separate incidents that meet the criteria, in just a few throwaway links.
Now let’s see what you guys cameup with after a full day, and with my help.
First, the golf spike link. I don’t think it qualifies and I would disallow it on my list, but I think you guys need it, so let’s allow it.
The second link is domestic extremist killers. That cite attribute 20 deaths to Nazis and white supremacists. There are only a couple of examples given, nothing is against Democrats/ or libs per se. they seem racially motivated attacks or sexually motivated attacks by truly sick and odious people. The exception of course is the attack by car in Charlottesville.
Not sure what motivated gianforte but we will not give him the benefit of the doubt that his attack was political. Perdue Snatching a cell phone doesn’t cut it, the next happened in 2014. It’s not really clear who instigated the Rinaldi thing, but we will allow it.
Hamlet lists threats against Blasey Ford, but I disallowed all anonymous type threats against public figures as it seems like they all get them, and this included the ones against Kavanaugh. The next link contains no specific instances besides Charlottesville which was already covered. Next we have a lovely video from the NRA with a lot of fearmongering. It counts.
Next are two more instances of very serious threats. They count.
Next is a 2015 survey, which is before our time frame. Next are from 2010
Next three links are a bad link, a racist asshole, and a muddier who is pro trump. No political motivation here. It’s just assholes being assholes.
Next we have two calls to have Hillary asassinated. These both count. (Although I haven’t gotten looking for threats to kill Donald.) Than general anonymous threats against a newspaper which I have not been counting.
A specific threat against Feinstein, yes. General anonymous ones against her office, no.
3 serious threats/ incidents. 3 yesses.
Next is the one I found, which is a yes. I find this one particularly disturbing because while trying to shut down republican conservative speeches and events is pretty common especially at University, we haven’t seen too much against Dems. I hope this does not signal a trend.
Ok, let’s add this up:
That’s 14.
Final tally, 14 credible threats against Dems/libs by the right versus 455 against Republican/conservatives by the left.
You guys did not do very good. When I did this by myself I spent a few hours hunting with roughly the same criteria, and Insearched for political violence for a few hours with a tick sheet. I made hash marks for credible threats, asterisks for violence and stars for serious injury and death. That one came out around 8 to 1 as opposed to the 32 to 1 you have here.
So yeah, this is what I’ve been saying.
Feel free to go through the links and add it up yourself. I was pretty severe against the Breitbart thing, so if you wish to disallow more please explain your criteria and show how you attempted to apply it objectively.
My thesis appears to stand.
That was a lot of work, so I didn’t proofread. Sorry.
Is that confirmation bias in your pocket, or are you just unhappy to see me?