Of course people get upset about stuff that is genuinely terrible for them. A person who was, for example, recently assaulted by a lesbian, or a Spanish speaker, or a Russian immigrant, may understandably feel genuinely upset about being around other lesbians, or Spanish speakers, or Russian immigrants, and may find those feelings genuinely terrible. I understand and sympathize.
But: that victimized person is not therefore entitled to deny or infringe the rights of lesbians, or Spanish speakers, or Russian immigrants, for the sake of their own feelings. We definitely need to accommodate and care for individuals who have been hurt and are temporarily too fragile to interact with the rest of the world normally. But that doesn’t mean we get to trample on other people’s rights while doing so.
There’s no way to distinguish anybody whom you don’t personally know and trust from somebody who might assault you. (In fact, not even knowing and trusting an individual is adequate protection against that: plenty of people have been assaulted by individuals whom they personally knew and trusted.)
We need to provide care and security to all victims in recovery spaces. But by trying to make that issue all about and only about penises, you reveal that your real motive here isn’t compassion for victims, but persecution of trans people.
But … you know that that doesn’t really make a difference to what women are actually worried about, right? Which is ‘how safe is it to get naked with this person?’
The significant thing is “how sexually safe is this type of person, in general?”. Which, there’s plenty of solid government-level data indicating that the safe people are “women and transmen” , and a couple of orders of magnitude less safe are “men and transwomen”
It makes an enormous difference whether the person is male or female. That is the entire reason why, traditionally, women are much more comfortable being undressed around other women than around men.
Can you be 100% sure of being safe? Of course not. Life is risk. But there are obvious reasons why there is a substantial difference for a woman between getting naked around male people, or getting naked around female people
It’s up to men whether they consider it too risky. Some people do. A lot of parents are more concerned about sending their boy children to the change room alone than their girl children
I’ve actually been to their site, and I not sure they would appreciate the “But I am not saying it-they are saying it!” excuse used whenever confronted.
This part of the conversation is specifically talking about the recent controversy at Archimedes Banya in San Francisco where, yes, people do get naked. news link
Do you have a cite that women are abused by transwomen more than by other women? I’m not saying it’s false, but I would be surprised given the small number of transwomen, and the small subset of those that would assault someone, compared to the number of cis-women out there.
I keep opening this thread to see updates on Republican’s war on transgender people. But all I see is various posters’ opinions on transgender people, how they think transgender people should present themselves in public, etc. Maybe these people should start a new thread?