LOL, pld. I have this mental image of a monty python skit where europeans are trying to trade with a horse.
Congrats, pldennison, you win the “Missing The Point” award.
Atomic Dog brought up the point that slave traders should have treated their slaves as people instead of property. I brought up the notion that Europeans/Americans didn’t consider them EQUALS. While I used the horse thing as an example, I wasn’t saying that slaves were considered on par with livestock. Of course, you completely ignored that little fact, didn’t you?
Why would Europeans trade with African tribes if they didn’t consider them equals? Simple, genius… so they wouldn’t have to go round up the slaves on their own. Tribes fought tribes, and the loser was enslaved by the winner (I’m generalizing). The winner, knowing that guns and beer are better than a few hundred servants, made the trade. The Europeans, realizing that “Hey, it’s less work for us! All it costs is a couple of rifles and a keg!” took the deal happily.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the word slave itself come from the word Slav? And weren’t the Slavic people the first slaves?
Yes, the word “slave” comes from Slav. This is because so many Slavs taken into slavery, generally being sold to the Muslims. Their captors were usually other Europeans such as the Vikings.
They were not, however, the first slaves. Slavery goes back well into pre-historic times. Prior to the anti-slavery movement that began in Europe in the 18th century, slavery was virtually a universal institution, having been practiced in one form or another by almost every known society and culture.
I’ve been reading this thread for a while without responding. Similarly, I have been thinking about this issue for a long time without coming to any firm conclusions. I try to not be racist but I consistently find myself prejudging everyone I meet at least a little, and skin color does affect that. All prejudgements are consciously preliminary and likely to change rapidly upon experience. I am frequently complimented on how NON-judgemental I am, which, to me, shows that I am not alone in my prejudging.
My current thoughts are that our history brought us to where we are and there is no changing that. To improve things for the future, let’s look at our CURRENT problems, of which we have plenty, and try to solve those.
I think the most, yes most, important thing we need to do today is to improve the elementary and preschool system. Can some political figure somehow say, “OK, we need to make up for slavery. Let’s put a lot of money and effort into improving the schools, especially inner city schools, in order to give the next generation of blacks the best chance we can give them.” Do you think that might work? I know the benefit wouldn’t be solely black but that might mean you’d get a wider support for your proposal.
In today’s non-agricultural society, I’d like to see schools go with longer school years. I’d like to see a schools offer an optional longer day so that they could indeed double as day care. What’s wrong with that? Though I would rather see parents do their job as parents more fully, I don’t see a problem with schools stepping in to the parental roll when needed. Parents who realize and disapprove of the school filling the roll of parent could do that job themselves with no objection from anyone.
All these ideas are half-baked. I have no idea how to test them without trying. I just know that I would be willing to apologize for something I don’t believe I am really responsible for, if that would mean accomplishing something positive. If it means giving a handout to a bunch of people who think they just deserve it because of their ancestors’ torments, well, I’d have a hard time sacrificing anything for that.
My ancestors (at least the Lithuanian part of them) had the Mongols come through and pillage repeatedly, and then the Vikings, and then the French, and then the Russians. They and their descendants (not we, I am an American) have enjoyed political independence only a small portion of their existence. Though they are a strong people they have never been a large group and larger groups have continually abused them. (They had a brief and proud period where they had knights in armor and were closer to the mythological Arthurian kingdom than England ever was. Peasants were still in pretty bad shape, but they were allowed to hunt and fish.) Because they are a strong people, they have endured. They have once again achieved political independence and are beginning to get on their feet as a stable and positive force in eastern europe. They are not standing up in the UN asking for recompense from the Mongols or the Russians. They have their own country and were never enslaved, so this is comparing apples and oranges. Still, I think that Black Americans could learn from their example. Unfortunately, our city schools are pretty unlikely to teach them any of this. This CURRENT repression needs to stop.
Well, you can see I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I keep catching myself comparing apples to oranges, and making assumptions, and generally revealing that I am a product of my society. To conclude, let me just say that I am in favor of anything that involves making an effort to improve the way things are today. If the best we can do is to get over slavery and move on, then fine. If we can use the emotions involved to bring support to something like education, then I say let’s use it.