[QUOTE=Colophon]
Why meddle with the language when all it accomplishes is to reduce precision? With the apostrophe you can instantly tell whether your talking plural or possessive, and, if possessive, whether the possessor is singular or plural. Abolish the apostrophe and you have to spend a while working it out, or even be left completely in the dark.
[/QUOTE]
So appropriate! 
[QUOTE=gigi]
So appropriate!
[/QUOTE]
There’s a reason it’s Gaudere’s Law, and not Gaudere’s Theory, or even Gaudere’s Opinion.
Er, Val, to what should we attribute this, another example of the paux fas or just a little leg pulling?:
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Your right. Its what got me going.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
(You’ll remember Phone-Deregulation Algebra: 18T / 5 = 9X. [Read it aloud.])
[/QUOTE]
I don’t get it, but then I wasn’t around when AT&T was broken up.
the problem with the ’ is that noone cares. and why should we care? English is a horrifically screwed up language, the last I heard this was thanks to the fact that a bunch of lawyers made the rules deliberatly complicated for the purpose of keeping the poor ignorant and keeping themselves employed doing things like writing letters for people who couldnt read and write.
I am with Ben Franklin, the hell with the written english its time to make a written American language…things like i before e.
no really thats the whole rule, i comes before e.
seriously folks thats it, lesson over.
is there some reason, no wait. is there some LOGICAL reason for anyone to jump through the insane number of hoops present in the english language while trying to do something as simple as comunicate?
I mean I know what the reason that we do it is. its the exact same reason we are still using the standard system of measure instead of metric. we are all morons.
I think that post proves that proper punctuation makes written English easier to follow. Besides, it’s distracting to read things like “noone”. Always makes me think of the lead singer of Herman’s Hermits.
Haha, it doesn’t bother me, as I do use metric measurements, and have no interest in an American language. 
[QUOTE=Critical1]
is there some reason, no wait. is there some LOGICAL reason for anyone to jump through the insane number of hoops present in the english language while trying to do something as simple as comunicate?
I mean I know what the reason that we do it is. its the exact same reason we are still using the standard system of measure instead of metric. we are all morons.
[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t say so. It’s because without consensus among people in language it doesn’t work as well in its job of communicating. If we all had our own languages with their own rules we’d have no-one to talk to.
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
The problem is that it’s not just apostrophes. People today can’t seem to use commas effectively even though they are critical to expressing yourself in written work. mistakes happen, and internet writing is informal anyway, but I still see wild posts dashed off in some sort of incomprehensible grammar-free gibberish.
[/QUOTE]
and..but…or..nor..for do not take commas.
So all of you, who have written “,and” or “,but” in their replies in this thread, will have two points deducted.
That includes you, bandit.
Carry on..
[QUOTE=Latro]
and..but…or..nor..for do not take commas.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Alwrong]
[/QUOTE]
OK, that was all wrong.
Went back to class and found out they can take commas if they join two independant clauses, when both clauses contain a subject.
–Miguel took piano lessons for sixteen years and today is an accomplished performer.
–Miguel took piano lessons for sixteen years**,** and today he is an accomplished performer.
But then everybody probably already knew that, but me.
[QUOTE=Ignatz]
Er, Val, to what should we attribute this, another example of the paux fas or just a little leg pulling?:
[/QUOTE]
C’mon Ignatz, gimme some credit here. I may have spelled “spelt” wrong (or is that “I may have spelt ‘spelt’ wrong?”) but I think you know that that other one was leg pulling.
Reminds me of the joke about the guy who gets a flat just outside the fence around a mental hospital. While he changes the tire he notices a mental patient observing him through the fence.
As he is changing the flat he steps on the hub-cap and sends the four nuts from the wheel rolling down the sewer.
He stands there frustrated, until the mental patient calls him over and says: “Hey buddy, all you have to do is take one nut from each of the three other wheels and put it on the fourth wheel. Then drive to a garage and buy four more wheel nuts.”
The mortorist thinks and says “That is a brilliant idea. How is it that you, a mental patient, knew what to do and I, on the outside, didn’t?”
“I’m here because I’m crazy, mister, not stupid!”
So I am crazy, Ignatz, but not stupid. 
[QUOTE=Critical1]
I mean I know what the reason that we do it is. its the exact same reason we are still using the standard system of measure instead of metric. we are all morons.
[/QUOTE]
At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I cannot believe that Americans refer to the inch-pound measurement system as “standard”. :dubious: ???
If you will refer to this article in Wiki:
“As of 2007, only the United States, Liberia, and Myanmar (Burma) have not adopted the International System of Units as their primary or sole system of measurement[1], although it is widely used in all countries in science, medicine, and engineering. Note, however, that at least Burma uses metric units on a practical basis in daily life.”
STANDARD???
I do NOT agree American are morons. I am a Canadian but definitely Americanophilic, even though I may sometimes criticize our neighbour. However, I note there is a weird strain of resistance to stuff like metric conversion. I think it has to do with the fact that the core culture of America is Anglo-Saxon and that this culture, evolved on an island, has always deep down believed that “All foreigners are knaves and fools and probably both.”
There was actually an attempt at metric conversion in the US in the 1920s that met with HUGE popular resistance. Their slogan was “The honest Saxon inch, the honest Saxon pound.”
The implication is clear. The metric system is some crooked travesty invented by dishonest, slimy, dirty, oily, smelly foreigners. Give in on metric and they will ask you to stop speaking English.
Come to think of it, this would make a good thread by itself. Why is the US so resistant to metric conversion?
[QUOTE=Latro]
OK, that was all wrong.
Went back to class and found out they can take commas if they join two independant clauses, when both clauses contain a subject.
–Miguel took piano lessons for sixteen years and today is an accomplished performer.
–Miguel took piano lessons for sixteen years**,** and today he is an accomplished performer.
But then everybody probably already knew that, but me.
[/QUOTE]
So why is there a comma in front of your “but” (not your “butt” ) in the last sentence of your post? The conjunction “but” does not join two independent clauses that each have their own subject in that sentence.
In fact, I note that if you recast the sentence to reposition “but me”, you would NEVER use a comma.
You would never write: “But then everybody, but me, probably already knew that.”
May I propose that the use of the comma cannot be determined by precise rules, because, unlike the apostrophe, it does indeed represent an element of spoken language, namely, a pause. Therefore, its usuage must to a large extent be determined by instinct and speaking style.
The apostrophe, on the other hand, only serves to define grammatical relationships and has nothing at all to do with spoken language.
As an example, look at what I wrote above: “. . . it does indeed represent an element of spoken language, namely, a pause.”
Any normal speaker would pause slightly at “namely”. You may even make a small gesture such as opening your hands, thumbs up, palms facing, or raising your eyebrows or both when you add that word in a spoken sentence. Or you may give a slight head nod.
Try it in front of a mirror, pretend you are saying this to an audience, and see what body language you use.
I challenge you to try speaking that bit of sentence without making any pauses, changes or gestures, however slight, when you get to “namely”.
[QUOTE=Valteron]
Come to think of it, this would make a good thread by itself. Why is the US so resistant to metric conversion?
[/QUOTE]
I think there may have been one or two threads on that subject 
(I say “threads”. I mean “pitched battles”.)
[QUOTE=Latro]
and..but…or..nor..for do not take commas.
So all of you, who have written “,and” or “,but” in their replies in this thread, will have two points deducted.
That includes you, bandit.
Carry on..
[/QUOTE]
The do when they connect independent clauses.
People making erroneous corrections will have 4 points deducted. 
People who forget to read page 2 of a thread before posting will have 6 points deducted. :smack:
[QUOTE=Valteron]
At the risk of hijacking my own thread, I cannot believe that Americans refer to the inch-pound measurement system as “standard”. :dubious: ???
If you will refer to this article in Wiki:
“As of 2007, only the United States, Liberia, and Myanmar (Burma) have not adopted the International System of Units as their primary or sole system of measurement[1], although it is widely used in all countries in science, medicine, and engineering. Note, however, that at least Burma uses metric units on a practical basis in daily life.”
STANDARD???
The implication is clear. The metric system is some crooked travesty invented by dishonest, slimy, dirty, oily, smelly foreigners. Give in on metric and they will ask you to stop speaking English.
[/QUOTE]
walk into any garage and ask them what tools you need to work on some type of car. they will tell you you need a Standard set of tools to work on domestic cars and a metric set to work on foriegn cars.
trust me I realise its not the “standard” anything.
as for the rest of the post, I think you are supporting the argument for Americans being morons instead of refuting it. there simply isn’t a good reason to stick with the standard system. not one. but here we are, well over 100 years of metric and we still havent made the swtich.
much like the english language, if we tossed out all the inane pointless and down right stupid rules and came up with a system that followed the basic rules of english only without the 987696797987979 exceptions it would be a language anyone could learn…including the people who are born speaking it.
what is the f’n point of an apostrophie in an abrieviated word? the point of the abrieviation is to save time and or effort but the stupid ’ defeats the whole damn point. You are is 7 keystrokes typed or 6 written, youre is 5 for both while you’re is still 6 written it does save you the effort of hitting the space bar when typed. to bad the language never envisioned type writers when it was developed. in the case of the abriviated word the ’ is self defeating, its like saying you can do something that a train does for the same cost as a train and doing it almost exactly like a train only it looks different. what the hell would be the point of that?