Well, heh, I doubt you could ever quote chirac on having said that. Maybe there has been some speculation in * some * columns about him doing something to that effect.
And most things in sweden looks leftist when viewed from the US i’m sure
I guess i wouldnt want to be in George W’s shoes, and only partly because i don’t agree with his policies. But then everyone has his corner to speak from and after all we who have the privilige of expressing our opinions must do so.
Well maybe the we anti-war folks should try living in iraq for awhile - just as the pro-war folks (and i am not counting you in just yet John ;)) maybe should try experiencing US / UK bomb strikes in bagdad. Or the past ten year in Iraq during the sanctions…
But all we will ever know in all likelihood is our comfy appartments, houses and so on. And to think that we decide their fates given the state of things!
The News broadcast I saw put his words in quotes. That is not done (on any mainstream news stations) unless they are giving his exact words. BTW, his exact words were worse than my paraphrase. Check out this site:
Here’s a sample: “It is not really responsible behavior,” he told a news conference. “It is not well brought-up behavior. They missed a good opportunity to keep quiet.”
Yes, I often feel guilty sitting comfortably at home and pontificating about the right course of action. I’ve got to say, though, if I were in Iraq, I’d want the US to invade. Based on what I know about Saddam Hussein. Well , there you go-- I just did it again.
Are you suggesting that I control the web site of Britain’s Prime Minister? And, I also arranged for an actress playing the role of Rania Kashi to appear on MSNBC, as described by John Mace?
Oops, i just read that link of yours, John, and it seems the old guy really said some amazingly stupid things! Who would have known, but then again, those frenchies, eh
Which proves exactly the point of the uselessness of citing any one individuals belief as proof of the opinions of the group to which he belongs. You could as well just state your own beliefs straight away!
And John: i hope the fact that you, if you were an iraqi, would want the US to invade, doesnt mean that you, being an american, still wants the US to invade? Heh.
Well said I think. In my small corner of the world we all have opinions, and mine won’t necessarily match those of my neighbor, my Mom, or my husband…we might have a common enemy but be divided on what to do about it. I assume Iraqis are the same way.
btw I’m one of the pro-invasion people. Opinions that I’ve read from Iraqi citizens have influenced me to some degree.
Why thank you Tee! The more complex our view of the world, the more correct, i am sure.
The fact still remains that i have not heard of any organization representing iraqi refugees asking the US for an intervention. But then again i am sure there are also many exile iraqis hoping for one.
An interesting point was made by Robert Fisk, journalist for the Independent of London. Asked to state the likely scenario after an american invation of Iraq he said something roughely equivalent to this:
First we will in our news media (frequently) see pictures of iraqi liberation. Children making peace signs to the camera. Then there will be a substansial period of retributions on the representatives of Saddams government, of Baath party people. Pictures of people hanged from lampposts, american soldiers wathing the corpses. Then, after a while, formal objections will be raised, not by government oficials, but by private citizens, or corporations, likely by religious leaders, against the presence of american troops on iraqi soil. And the question then is how will the US respond.
In his view this will lead produce a new foundation for recruitment to al-qaida and the likes.
Then, of course, Fisk is definetely against war, and all this is pure speculation. But as nostradamuses goes, i’ve heard worse.
Correctomundo. I do not think the US will be better off by invading Iraq. That is my main objection to the war. As for being an Iraqi, well I would sure want someone to invade, even it were just the French!
The aftermath of war is a whole 'nother issue. Maybe I’m being pessimistic on this, but I don’t know of any democratic history in any Arab country. Sure it’s possible one could happen in the future, but I think the more likely scenario (assuming the west does not have a huge presence there for a VERY long time) is civil war, anarchy and/or the eventual emergence of another strongman dictator.
The US is clearly the only superpower in the world and it would behoove us to take, as Bush said in his campaign, a very humble approach to intervention in foreign countries.
As it is, though, I find it difficult to side with anti-war protestors equating Bush to Hitler, carrying effigies of Bush in a noose, and waving banners of Che Guevera.
Wait a minute. Is this the Iraq war protest thread or the Kashi thread…? They’re all starting to blend together for me.
yes that may be due to the same people posting in all the 15 iraq threads. Maybe we should give it up? For a response to the anti-war protestors = Che Guevara fans see my post in one of the demonstration threads
As for the US ever adopting a humble approach to intervention (political or military) in foreign countrys… Ha! Double-Ha! That’ll be the day…
Hey, it’s hard to be humble when you’re a superpower. What can I say? I guess we’ll be humble when the rest of the world stops giving us a hard time and gets with the program!
No, seriously, there is a fairly strong isolationist strain in the US populace. A lot of us don’t like the famous “foreign entanglements”. But if you’re the president of the most powerful country the world has ever seen, I think it’s just too tempting to think you can go around right the many wrongs that exist. I wonder how many people could restrain themselves if they sat in the Oval Office.
You really shouldnt get me started on whether the objectives of US administrations (republican and democrat) always has been to right the many wrongs in the world. The infamous United Fruit coup d’etat in Guatemala is just one example that comes to mind.
And another point: even at times when the admistrations are acting in a more “isolationist” manner, supposed to mean an unwillingness for direct military intervention, never believe that the U.S. has not plenty of foreign interests that would still need looking after in ever-so subtle ways. Often in the form of financial or other aid to the present good guys. These includes both Saddam, Usama and also Pinochet, Suharto and the likes.
Now i know that there is a strong motivation for wanting to believe that the people running your home country are basically good guys, trying to do good. And of course, in a sense, they are. But the combination of “our enemies are worse”, looking out for ones own, etcetera, can lead to some nasty stuff!
If she was born in Britain and has a British passport, you cannot get more British than that. Having foreign relatives killed in the country of your parents birth does not make you less British. My (minor) correction of december’s OP was merely that she is not an Iraqi immigrant.
That her relatives died is tragic, but relatives die all the time, all over the world. We are being asked to consider Iraq as a special case, and I do not believe that it is.
The point is that she represents the Iraqi people because of her background, even though she was never there. Her statement shows that Iraqis very much wants to see Saddam overthrown. We should not hesitate to attack Saddam for the sake of the Iraqi people. This war would be their liberation.
The point is that we would not be attacking Saddam (directly). We would be attacking the Iraqi army, which is composed of the sons of the Iraqi people. I feel no “liberation” occurs when a trench full of living young men is filled in by an armoured US bulldozer, nor when bomb shelters full of children are hit by daisycutter bombs.
Of course it is a dilemma, whether changing the regime would involve more death and suffering than leaving it in place and eg/ allowing food and medical supplies in. However, I think it is a mistake to assume that the Iraqi people want their army to be defeated.
i still say there’s a huge problem taking any one individuals stated opinions to represent a “people”. Have you for example seen an organization representing exile-iraqis making a request for an US intervention?
