What I don’t get - and it’s nothing personal against you, naotalbah - is how pumped breastmilk, at daycare and according to a feeding schedule, is superior to formula at home, on demand, from Mom.
I’d like to see a study on that one.
It sounds like you did everything in your power to give your babies the advantages of on-demand feeding in a situation where breastfeeding wasn’t practicable, and for that I commend you.
As to your question, I don’t know that it is is- (although I will assume in this hypothetical that Formula!Mom is holding and making eye contact the child during feeding). It depends on what benefits you are most concerned about. If you are looking to prevent ear infections (and the resulting complications), the antibacterial nature of breastmilk means that pumped breastmilk wins. As for obesity, it is not clear how much of the benefit comes from the on-demand nature of breastfeeding, and how much is from the superior digestability of breastmilk. If it is the superior bonding, of course Formula!Mom wins.
Of course, in the real world, very very few women pump for daycare without also nursing at night and on weekends. More importantly, women who don’t nurse at night and weekends, or who don’t pump for daycare, tend to lose their milk in short order unless they don’t go back to work until the kid is older.
A more interesting study to my mind would be one of “exclusive pumpers” so that we can see how much of the benefits are due to the method of delivery rather than the product. I beleive there is already some research out there as to the benefits of on-demand feeding for both breastfed and formula fed babies.
My baby was in daycare AND fed on demand…it’s not like you necessarily have to choose one or the other. I am disposed quite favorably towards moms staying at home with their babies (although, due to my circumstance, it wasn’t possible for me to do so). But if you choose good daycare, and you are able to pump, I think this is the best compromise you can make.
Hmmmm…on the other hand…what about differences between subtypes of IQs, learning disabilites etc? I have to say that I think there might be some kids for whom breastfeeding might avert some learning disabilites/ Aspergers/ differences in IQ subtypes/ slightly lower IQs (not enough to be MR, but still enough to be significent)/general “Ummmm who’s President Bush?”-style dumbassery. Hey…I mean I’m wondering if perhaps breastfeeding could prevent apraxia or other speech problems? I have a disorder that has a VERY high rate of apraxia. I’m one of only four or six people, with the syndrome who DON"T have apraxia. All of us who don’t have apraxia were all breastfed.
Hey, WhyNot, since you’re interested in all this third world/hippie shit I’ll get you the recipe for the restorative spice tea (not chai) that we all drink in Goa (I always say I’m Marathi for easy identification but I’m a half-breed, my mother is from spice-rich Konkan). They’re all called kasai, and the one that’s really good for you (and totally 'nummy) is called jeera kasai. As long as you have a spice/coffee grinder you should be able to make it yourself. Ginger is marvelous but jeera kasai is another phenomenal anti-nausea remedy. My parents also claim it strengthens the blood. They’re out from the East Coast visiting me tomorrow and bringing a stash of all these crazy spices.
You’re right, it’s all about compromise, every step o’ the way. This search for the absolute-best-choice-for-all-kids is mostly a waste of time – not like we could all DO it, even if we figured out what it was! I know I had to compromise (and still do – Noggin, anyone?).
I didn’t know there was any such thing as a feed-on-demand daycare; glad you found one & thanks for the information!
Do you have any information on the rate of decay for the antibodies in the frozen or refrigerated breastmilk? I always wondered if three day chilled breastmilk had much in the way of antibodies left, and no one was ever able to answer that for me. (Since I couldn’t ever get ahead of the pumping game, it wasn’t so much of an issue, but some of my milk still sat around for up to 24 hours before she drank it.)
This was why we didn’t try for banked milk from the hospital - we were told that by the time it was pasteurized, any antibiotic properties had pretty much been cooked out, proteins had been denatured and it wasn’t a whole lot better than formula, while still bearing some infection risks.
FelixKat930, good point on the disabilities issue. IQ is not correlated with Asperger’s or Autism, or many learning disabilities. Breastfeeding may still reduce those sorts of things while leaving IQ relatively unaffected. Or not. But more research would be useful, that’s for sure. It’s been thought for years that one benefit of breastfeeding (not breastmilk, but breastfeeding) is that it better exercises the tongue and jaw, and that better prepares the infant for babbling and speech. I don’t know if that goes so far as to reduce apraxia, but it would be interesting to look at.
I’d love to try it, thanks!
We love Noggin. My daughter has a thing for Moose A. Moose.
I breastfed the first 3 months, until I had to go back to work. I work 12 hour shifts with unpredictable 25 minute breaks. Sometimes I get a break every 2.5 hours, sometimes not for 6. There is no way I could have pumped in that time and I had the dual pump electric Medela pump.
My daughter was born premature and weighed 4lbs 12oz. I had had a hard time gaining weight the last month I was pregnant and had force fed myself to get her over her estimated weight of 3lbs 3oz at 8months gestation.
She ate well, I pumped/fed well. Really we had no problems until close to the end when my left breast gave out and produced nothing while the other was going like gangbusters. Since then, we have been feeding her formula.
It was recommended to me by her pediatrician that I begin feeding her solids as she was exceeding the 40oz a day limit for formula. She fed every 2 hours for the first 6 months. Born in the 3rd percentile for weight, she is now 1 year old and normal. She has caught up finally, however, you should see how much food she puts away. 
I did not like going to formula. It was a HUGE pain in the neck. I am glad she is almost on all solids. Making bottles all day/night was a drag. I have 15 playtex bottles and I still feel like I spend half my life cleaning bottles.
So anyway, my daughter isn’t cuddly as a rule, she is very active, curious, in a nutshell, she has things she has to do. I can’t fathom breastfeeding her now. I’d have to have my boobs hanging out running all over the house. Even though she breastfed well, even then, she didn’t like not being able to see what is going on.
I don’t think I’m a better mom because I breastfed her, frankly, it WAS easier. I did it because I felt like it was the right thing to do and we both acclimated well to it. The potential health benefits were a part of it, but mostly, it just felt like the right thing to do at the time. I’m not a tree hugger by any stretch, I have never felt the need to “cleanse” my system, but I do trust my body to handle stuff. I don’t think we are as weak as we treat ourselves. I got pretty weirded out by the “breastfeed or raise retards” group when I was researching it.
I feel bad for folks who feel guilty about those kinds of decisions. Pregnancy is rife with them. I actually heard a woman say that she felt like a failure because she HAD to have a cesarean and all that she missed out on. (I personally was able to deliver normally, with all the drugs, it was an interesting process, but really, holding my little cherry tomato was more memorable) I had a woman tell me that a potato chip was the worst possible thing I could put in my body (I had a very, very rare craving for salt, I never salt my food)
If this study does nothing else except make one more mother feel comfortable about decisions she makes about her and her child, bring 'em on.
BTW, I was questioned very often when I was pregnant if I was planning to breastfeed. At that point, my response internally was “get off my boobs you freak!” and externally as “I hope so.” At that point, I really didn’t know how I would feel about it. I mean, damn, they were my boobs, how wierd would that be? It is hard for me to express how different it was than what I thought it would be, and I was pretty certain it would be too weird. It wasn’t and even now, when folks crack jokes about breastfeeding, it makes me sad for them, because they really don’t know what it is like.
I look at my baby today and it fills me with pride that for the first year of her existence, I was able to single handedly keep her alive and health. I gave her everything she needed. I still do, but it isn’t the same. My tiny baby was described as “strong like bull” “small but perfect” and I MADE THAT! It is a pretty neat feeling.
I think naotalbah’s strong reaction was spurred by the suggestion in hte OP that moms should “rest the breast.” I don’t believe this thread is the best place for that same old debate about whether you can still be a good mom if you fed formula by choice or necessity (I have yet to meet any sane, credible person who would say no), nor do I think anyone is asking moms to account for the circumstances that made them make one choice over another. Does anyone want my formula story? I didn’t think so.
If they debunked the IQ stuff, it would almost be preferable (in my cranky book), as that seemed to push all kinds of buttons with people. If I hear one more person say “I was fed formula, but I read before age 4 and got 1450 on my SATs, so those studies must be wrong” I may go completely apeshit.
There are plenty of other reasons more moms should at least try breastfeeding (if feasible), and plenty of reasons to stick with it (if feasible). I don’t understand why the OP thinks “rest the breast” is the conclusion to draw here.
Not a conclusion and not a statement that mom shouldn’t breast feed. That should be clear enough not only from the article linked but from the context of the OP itself. It is, however, a statement for those who might feel the need to both breast feed and then pump in order to hold a job, as is our situation, or to travel for that job in order to be in line for promotion later. Hence – the topic title. It’s not a declaration, it’s not a call for revolution, it’s not anti-breast feeding. Christ folks. The topic title wasn’t given that much thought. That said, I’ve heard the IQ - breast feeding connection for years, and the articles indicate that this has been the belief since the 1920s - as I recall. I posted this because this is the first I’ve heard that this connection might not be the case. Sort of like the classical music - IQ stuff a a couple of years back. Interesting stuff only — not a challenge to breast feeding or the ‘other’ benefits still outstanding.
My mom had similar problems as WhyNot, so I was mostly a formula-fed baby. I’m happy that the link between breast milk and IQ is up for debate – I always found it disheartening that I could’ve been a few IQ points smarter had my mom been able to produce milk properly.
No, but when we try to convince people who aren’t interested in it that they should give it a go, we end up sounding like to do anything less is tantamount to child abuse. Most moms (particularly NEW moms who are hormonal messes) want what is BEST for their baby. I’d be very interested in seeing a study that measured mother/child relationship (bonding) between women who started their pregancy intending to breastfeed and did, women who didn’t have the intention starting out and did, women who didn’t have the intention starting out and didn’t, and - here is the kicker - women who wanted to but couldn’t. Cause its my hypothesis that all this pro-breast propaganda hurts the last group more than it helps the middle two.
I actually read a lot of the studies ten years ago when we were adopting and my Breastfeeding Nazi friends (they’ve gotten better) were making me feel bad (they didn’t know) going on and on and on about how much better breastfeeding was.
And, in my opinion, the studies were terribly flawed. They often didn’t have control groups that involved breast milk from a bottle, so it wasn’t clear if it was the milk or the lack of bottle creating the difference (a real problem - in my mind - in the studies that take about number of illnesses the first year - bottles are more bacteria prone). They weren’t adjusting for socioeconomic class. I still watch the articles come through on occation and laugh at some of them - your child has twice the chance of having this rare type of cancer if they aren’t breastfed. You discover that this type of cancer has four cases in the U.S. every decade. Yeah, like thats even a significant sample size to work with - and if it was - I’m more concerned about the skateboard.
Now, when I did have a bio child, I did breastfeed her. It was a pain in the backend, but I did think that was the best bet. None of the studies ever indicated - no matter how poorly they were run - that breast was worse - unless there were weird circumstances in an individual case.
There are some hysterics who flog people over the head with it, abuse statistics, and try to make it sound that babies fed formula are at serious risk (which is b.s. in developed countries). They deserve a throatpunch, sure. However, I don’t think there messages predominate.
I think some moms bring their own defensiveness to the table when they equate arguments for breastfeeding to a statement that formula = child abuse. At some point you have to suck it up and accept your own parenting decisions, and stop feeling victimized when people advocate things you’ve decided don’t work for your family. If you’ve made an informed decision, then there is little reason to feel defensive. There are plenty of sound reasons why a moms may not breastfeed, or may not do it exclusively. However, if a mom has made a knee-jerk, uninformed decision, then maybe she should feel a little uncomfortable. Is that the fault of public health advocates who promote breastfeeding?
Short version: I think it’s still worthwhile to try to convince moms and dads that it is a good idea–there’s something to be gained from that. It’s not as condemning a message as some feel it is.
Yes, it absolutely is all those things. Rhyming is nice, but it also makes for great revolutionary slogans.
I’m sorry, my Super-Duper Mind Reader wasn’t functioning yesterday. I foolishly replied to the words on a computer screen instead of sensing what you really meant.
I mean, thanks for coming in and clearing it up, but next time try to make a more accurate and descriptive title. All we have to go on is what you type, not what you meant.
Nonfunctioning ‘Super-Duper Mind Readers’ cut both directions. The words on the computer screen, ALL of them, indicated what I meant, or at least I thought so. Now that intentions have been explained – the case ought to be closed. No …
I really hope that you don’t sincerely feel that way! There are probably lots of things in life that can affect our IQ a couple of points one way or another. There is really no point to worrying about any of them! I was formula-fed as well, due to circumstances beyond anyone’s control. What can you do about fate & circumstance?
I should clarify that this is an in-home daycare, not a large daycare center…I don’t know if you could find feeding on demand at those places. I chose in-home specifically because I wanted her to be held & fed when she needed to be, not when someone had time to do it. And from what I saw when I was investigating various places, it was not any more expensive than the large daycare centers. It’s been so great for us! I purposely found one as close to my office as I could (5 minutes away), and my provider would call me each day when my baby was hungry at around 11:30, so I could run over there & nurse her. It was really wonderful.
Agreed, but I think we could be more careful with the messages. A post pregnant woman is not the most rational of creatures.
And I really wonder how many people are really on the fence over this and education helps. We’ve been doing bookoo education on this for fifteen years - have the rates been increasing for fifteen years - or have they stabilized? Are we wasting our breath with the non-breastfeeders while alienating the can’t breastfeeders? Are we targeting the message properly, or is it getting shotgunned into the wrong groups? Are we teaching people that its OK to walk up to strangers and condemn the bottle (as happened to me on several occations) - and how is that different from strangers who think its ok to tell a breastfeeding woman that its ooky to breastfeed in public (which never happened but only because my daughter wouldn’t latch if even Daddy or her brother were around)? We aren’t respectful of people’s choices or circumstances, and is the education campaign contributing to the disrespect? I don’t know the answers to any of this, but I don’t think you can say “more babies being breastfed is worth the downsides to our shotgun approach to the message” without understanding HOW MANY more babies are being breastfed and exactly what are the unintended consequences.
And this is exactly the sort of thing that makes me so emotional about this issue. Not that you had those feelings- they are yours, and you have the right to them- but that that is such a common reaction. If we as a society were more supportive of breastfeeding and mothers in general, I think you would have felt a lot less weird, and I can’t help but think that would be a good thing.
I try not to harrass pregnant moms that way, but I do like to say things like, “the LLL leader in this area is really great, I can get you her phone number if you like” and then let it go if they don’t reply with, “that would be great - I’m planning to breastfeed.”
WhyNot, A quick google search shows all kinds of studies where the breastmilk samples were frozen before being tested for the presence of antibodies, so I can’t see that that would be an issue. Pasturizing, on the other hand, would be far more damaging. I thought the reason they recommend banked milk is because it is so much easier for premies to digest. Your baby’s digestive tract was probably fairly mature.
And Phantom Dennis, I do the same thing about my mom smoking when she was pregnant with me - would I be smarter or more athletic if she hadn’t used her pregnant belly as a place to rest her ashtray?
But I don’t look for reasons why smoking during pregnancy is okay as a result.
And why in the hell is it any of your business? I’ve found society to be perfectly supportive of breastfeeding and hostile to bottlefeeders.
I’m afraid I bit off the nose of more than one person who asked “are you planning to breastfeed?” with “excuse me? did you have sex with your husband last night? What the hell kind of personal question is that? What business is it of yours?”
As strong as your feelings are pro-breastfeeding, my feelings are towards “this isn’t anyone’s business but mine.”
This is on my list of “really offensive questions.” And offering the name of a LLL leader is just a clever way of not asking the question. Still offensive. In fact, more so since the LLL and I have a “history” when I called them about adoptive breastfeeding and they told me I shouldn’t bother to have kids if I couldn’t start them right.