Rest the breast (Breast milk does not boost IQ)

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
Agreed, but I think we could be more careful with the messages. A post pregnant woman is not the most rational of creatures.

And I really wonder how many people are really on the fence over this and education helps. We’ve been doing bookoo education on this for fifteen years - have the rates been increasing for fifteen years - or have they stabilized? Are we wasting our breath with the non-breastfeeders while alienating the can’t breastfeeders? Are we targeting the message properly, or is it getting shotgunned into the wrong groups? Are we teaching people that its OK to walk up to strangers and condemn the bottle (as happened to me on several occations) - and how is that different from strangers who think its ok to tell a breastfeeding woman that its ooky to breastfeed in public (which never happened but only because my daughter wouldn’t latch if even Daddy or her brother were around)? We aren’t respectful of people’s choices or circumstances, and is the education campaign contributing to the disrespect? I don’t know the answers to any of this, but I don’t think you can say “more babies being breastfed is worth the downsides to our shotgun approach to the message” without understanding HOW MANY more babies are being breastfed and exactly what are the unintended consequences.
[/QUOTE]

You bring up some interesting points. I try to be very respectful of circumstances, but not necessarily of choices. Do I think giving someone a hard time for bottle feeding is acceptable? No, of course not. Will I (privately) rail against a woman who bottle feeds from the get go because she doesn’t want to “bother” learning to breastfeed? Yes, I will and do.

I think that breastfeeding education needs to emphasize the advantages very strongly, because it is competing with a commercial product with a large advertizing budget. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

I do think that we need to work more at teaching women how to breastfeed, rather than why to breastfeed at this point. Women who don’t have problems are far more likely to keep going after they leave the hospital, and for that they need to know how to do it right, and how to spot little problems before they become big ones.

42

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
I’ve found society to be perfectly supportive of breastfeeding

[/QUOTE]

You are fortunate (not in the hassle about bottlefeeding, which is obnoxiously unfair to you, but in the supportiveness for breastfeeding).

Some breastfeeding mothers have a different story to tell–they have not received perfect support from society. As early as the first days of an infant’s life, some mothers have found the hospital to have policies incoducive to breastfeeding. You will also be surprised to hear how many breastfeeding mothers feel pressured to not feed their babies in the presence of others (some of these stories have made it into the press, and I think they are good evidence of society’s lack of support for breastfeeding). Some moms have also gotten rude or intrusive comments about the proper age to wean. I’ve even seen threads on the SDMB where Dopers expressed pretty strong attitudes about these issue that were, ultimately, not supportive of breastfeeding.

So, although public health advocates promote breastfeeding, and LLL members are pretty gung-ho as well, many parents can attest to the fact that society is not, in fact, perfectly supportive (at least not in many parts of the country–I can’t speak to where you live).

43

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
In fact, more so since the LLL and I have a “history” when I called them about adoptive breastfeeding and they told me I shouldn’t bother to have kids if I couldn’t start them right.
[/QUOTE]
This story seriously makes me want to cry. I can’t imagine what this woman thinks a better option would be for the baby you adopted. Hmmm…the birth mother COULD breastfeed it, but probably was not equipped in a million other ways to be a mother. So…we shouldn’t encourage her to give it up for adoption, because breastfeeding is more important than any other aspect of motherhood? Give me a break.

I know this is carrying on a hijack, but this just burns me up. I certainly believe that my loving (adoptive) parents and 3 siblings have been much, much more important in my life than a few months of breastfeeding…and I am very, very pro-breastfeeding!

44

[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
And why in the hell is it any of your business? I’ve found society to be perfectly supportive of breastfeeding and hostile to bottlefeeders.

I’m afraid I bit off the nose of more than one person who asked “are you planning to breastfeed?” with “excuse me? did you have sex with your husband last night? What the hell kind of personal question is that? What business is it of yours?”

As strong as your feelings are pro-breastfeeding, my feelings are towards “this isn’t anyone’s business but mine.”

This is on my list of “really offensive questions.” And offering the name of a LLL leader is just a clever way of not asking the question. Still offensive. In fact, more so since the LLL and I have a “history” when I called them about adoptive breastfeeding and they told me I shouldn’t bother to have kids if I couldn’t start them right.
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I have no experience as far as hostility to bottlefeeders (not saying it doesn’t exist, just that I wasn’t exposed to it as a breastfeeding mother), but I have a good friend that got talked into formula at the hospital, before her milk even came in. I certainly have gotten looks for breastfeeding in public, and at least one really yucky leer.

To my mind this is more on the lines of a “have you had a doctor look at that gross mole on your back?” type question. Intrusive, and inappropriate unless you already have a relationship, but trying to help and offer information. (I assume that people are asking because they want to help and support you if you are breastfeeding, which I recognize might not always be the case). The reason I ask the question they way I do is to make it clear that that is my motive.

And LLL can get way out of line when it strays from its mission to teach women about how to breastfeed- I was lucky to have a leader that was one of the first to - gasp! - work outside the home and still be allowed to be a leader. If there was a reasonable alternative, I would recommend it. I am impressed that you even considered adoptive breastfeeding!

45

[QUOTE=naotalbah]
I have no experience as far as hostility to bottlefeeders (not saying it doesn’t exist, just that I wasn’t exposed to it as a breastfeeding mother), but I have a good friend that got talked into formula at the hospital, before her milk even came in.

[/QUOTE]

Thats a shame. I had a lactation consultant that almost sent my daughter to the hospital because it was “impossible” that my milk hadn’t come in yet and I should absolutely not give her a bottle because it would cause nipple confusion. (The milk did come in - seven days later and we were able to nurse with no sign of nipple confusion, but she wouldn’t have gone seven days without a hospital trip unless we’d done the bottle - or an SNS, and they aren’t for me - that’s the solution for adoptive breastfeeding, looked into that one already). So I had a dehydrated newborn. My nephew ended up in ICU under very similar circumstances years later (I suspect we have a genetic issue with milk coming in quickly in my family - my mother’s never did and my sister and I both needed to spend a week with a hospital pump to get it to happen) and they spent the first few months watching for signs of possible brain damage from his billi levels skyrocketing (he’s fine). Bad information comes both directions in the hospital - its a real shame when it happens.

46

Dangerosa that pisses me off to no end. LC’s are supposed to be helping babies stay healthy, not getting them sicker!
I had a midwife at a homebirth- about as crunchy granola as you get, right? And she gave crappy breastfeeding advice too - “you have to hold your breast away from the baby’s nose or she’ll sufficate!” “You have to give an eyedropper of boiled water after every feeding!” “hold your breast with the opposite hand, you’re doing it wrong!” (Now, I’ve seen women do that hold all the time, but I needed to hold the baby’s head in my hand to get a good latch, and I felt guilty for doing it “backwards” when she told me that.)

47

I had a lady give me crap about feeding my baby a bottle. I was shopping in the mall and had pumped before we left. I’m walking through a store and this lady comes up and starts giving me crap about giving her a bottle, I very kindly informed her that it was done of her damned business how I fed my kid and for the record, she was drinking BREASTMILK you stupid bitch.

In retrospect, I have to laugh about it because breastmilk looks nothing like formula, I can spot breastmilk in a bottle very easily vs. formula. If she had half a freakin’ clue, she could have told the difference too.

I often wanted to make nasty comments to folks whenever they saw my daughter with a bottle, the thought of breaking down in tears saying that I had breast cancer and had to have my breasts removed and that I was wearing falsies and how devastated I am that I am depriving my child and maybe I should put her up for adoption and do you know anyone that could be a more fit mother than me because I had my boobs butchered off. (This done with full on waterworks, dramatic breakdown, maybe falling on my knees and beseeching the gods that cursed me)

Then again, I have too much spare time :slight_smile:

48

Just some random thoughts that I had while reading this thread …

Thanks for the info / opinions about galactagogues WhyNot - it’s much appreciated!

Re: feeding on demand, daycare, etc - my daughter’s daycare has a very open policy about nursing - moms are welcome anytime to nurse their babies if they so desire.

When babyStainz was born, she was 5 weeks prem, and couldn’t nurse. Since then, almost 1 year ago, there has been pumping and bottles and finally nursing, and now formula and solids. Do I wish formula could’ve been avoided? Yes, but mainly because I worked SO hard to make breastfeeding work, and I felt like by going to formula I was somehow negating all of my efforts.

(My reasonable brain tells me this is not so, she WAS exclusively breastfed until 7 months, and is still getting at least some breastmilk each day).

I have been told that the antibodies in breastmilk decrease with time, but that milk that is a few days old, or that has been frozen, still contains some of the important antibodies.

49

Well actually, there is a condition where there’s a disreprency between the verbal and nonverbal IQ. I really do think in cases where they are just mildly out of it, breastfeeding could help.

50

Heh. I was ‘forced’ into breastfeeding long after I ever expected to by my son, who outright refused any type of fake nipple / bottle. I had the opposite problem as those whose kids wouldn’t latch or who couldn’t produce milk - my son latched on like a pro at birth and refused to accept any substitute! I had to go back to work after 3 months and he was fed by a wonderful day care provider with a medicine dropper out of desperation - we literally had to force the milk down his throat to keep him full until I could leave at lunchtime. Then he would suck down all the milk he could hold until I got out of work and immediately fed him again. I taught him to take a sippy cup at around 6 months but by then I had to pump anyway at work to keep my supply up so he mainly got breast milk until he was one, then he switched to whole milk in a cup.

When people hear I exclusively breast fed him for a year they are usually impressed that I kept it up that long. But sometimes I got a comment about how he was too old to still be breastfeeding. I just chuckle…I tried everything to get that kid to take a bottle! When people would comment to me I was just like “this is so not even in my hands…I just want my kid to eat.” I called LLL and they didn’t help me at all. The woman was perplexed, I think they are more used to dealing with kids that don’t want to nurse, not kids that won’t take a bottle.

I can’t take any credit though - I am sure I would have given up far sooner if I had a choice. Now that I know how much easier it got when he got older though I am much more likely to breast feed again, and at least partially breast feed until 1 year. After 6 months we were both pros at it and it was really quite convenient at times not to have to mess with formula, and I am sure we saved tons of money too. Although being able to supplement with a bottle would sure be nice for late night feedings, I joke that my husband owes me a years worth of nighttime bottle feedings!

I don’t know if it is coincidence but my son does seem to have an immune system of steel. He is around germy kids all the time and he only seems to get mild illnesses when he does get sick. I think he has only been really sick once in his life where he had a fever and had to stay in bed and that only lasted a day. So that is a real benefit.

I got condescending looks and comments from both sides. Mostly I got the idea that you are supposed to exclusively breast feed, but never in public :slight_smile: Giving a formula bottle is bad, but people never ever want to see you breastfeed. So I guess I was supposed to stay home for a year.

51

[QUOTE=Velma]
Heh. I was ‘forced’ into breastfeeding long after I ever expected to by my son, who outright refused any type of fake nipple / bottle. I had the opposite problem as those whose kids wouldn’t latch or who couldn’t produce milk - my son latched on like a pro at birth and refused to accept any substitute!
[/QUOTE]

Well, thank you for that. I have wondered if this was a problem for anybody else in the world, since every nursing mom I know either supplemented with formula or gave other liquids from a bottle. My middle child had one bottle in her entire life. We left her with my mother once when we went out for the evening. I left several bottles of breast milk and somewhere during the evening Mom managed to get her to take one. That was it. She wouldn’t touch another one, but waited until we got home to nurse. When she got to six months or so I tried water or juice, just so she’d get some more liquid (it was a very hot spring and summer) but she wasn’t having any of that. I guess I should have expected it, since the couple of times I tried to give her a pacifier she choked and gagged like I was trying to kill her. Spat that thing right out. I really don’t know what we would have done if I couldn’t have breastfed her for some reason. I’m just thankful we didn’t have to find out.

52

[QUOTE=Velma]

I don’t know if it is coincidence but my son does seem to have an immune system of steel. He is around germy kids all the time and he only seems to get mild illnesses when he does get sick. I think he has only been really sick once in his life where he had a fever and had to stay in bed and that only lasted a day. So that is a real benefit.
[/QUOTE]

My adopted son does too, and to the best of my knowledge never had any breastmilk.

My breastfed daughter was ear infection girl, is the one I pick up from school for vomiting and gets what I suspect are migraines.

Too small a sample to do anything but say “doesn’t need to be the breastfeeding.”

53

I think my daughter had one ear infection, and it was pretty mild. My son skipped them entirely. I read somewhere that the propensity for ear infections is largely genetic, and has to do with the formation of the inner ear.

Other than the mild ear infection, my kids had exactly ONE bug their whole first year, and they caught that at the pediatrician’s office (and then we all caught it - it was pretty contagious). But we didn’t go out much and they weren’t in daycare. Once they became mobile, we were all over the place & they were sick frequently, about every other month during their second year.

Now, in their third year, I think they caught one nasty bug in the spring & that’s about it (although my daughter has a cough right now).

I’ve read that toddlers NEED to experience minor bugs, in order to strengthen their immune systems. Some study showed that children who’re kept in antiseptic environments are more likely to develop auto-immune disorders (like MS) as adults. Specifically, they need pets and they need to play in dirt. My husband is a scientist & he pointed out that there is more bacteria in a cubic yard of soil than a whole pond of water (or something like that).

Not that I’m against breastfeeding, or offended when I see it in public - I just keep learning that raising kids is far, far more complex than any one particular decision. That’s the thing that gets me about BoobNazis.

If their beef is against formula companies’ advertising (which is pretty powerful), why not attack THEM instead of mommies?

54

[QUOTE=fessie]

If their beef is against formula companies’ advertising (which is pretty powerful), why not attack THEM instead of mommies?
[/QUOTE]

I believe that’s what the Nestle boycott (most recently since 1988) is related to. Mostly for their 3rd-world practices, but advertisement is part of the problem. Not that I think it has any effect. It raises the question of how one “attacks” them effectively. I don’t know what else breastfeeding activists are doing besides promoting the boycott. I’m sure they’re doing something. It’s not that they are unaware of the companies’ role.

Speaking of which, but I thought all of them were supposed to not advertise (it was part of the WHO code) and nearly all complied–choosing instead to do heavy marketing with hospitals, pediatricians, etc. They also have coupon campaigns. But Carnation GoodStart began advertising again–did the rest follow suit? I honestly don’t pay enough attention now that I’m not getting the baby magazines and watching parenting shows.

The thing about not breastfeeding that gets me is how much we all spend on it. Last I heard, formula costs comprise 28% of the WIC spending. We could see some real savings if more WIC mothers breastfed.

55

I have seen people advertise WIC-obtained formula for sale on the local Craigslist. I sure hope their babies are being fed properly.

56

[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth]
I have seen people advertise WIC-obtained formula for sale on the local Craigslist. I sure hope their babies are being fed properly.
[/QUOTE]

Dollars to donuts at least some of them are being breastfed and the WIC -> Craigslist black market is in place to make a few dollars.

57

I’ll jump in here-I like to live dangerously.

I have 3 kids.

Kid #1-now almost 17. Breastfed for maybe 6 weeks. Switched to formula because I couldn’t do it. Oh, I had so much milk, I could have opened my own dairy-I had no energy or strength. Everyone, from the ped to the OB to my parents told me it was new mommy syndrome. She was nine months old when I finally went to a real doctor and found out I had hypothyroid. :mad: :frowning: Kid #1 is in the AP and gifted program in HS.

Kid #2-now almost 15. Huge baby, huge kid. He is 5’11" now. He was breastfed for 11 days. Again, tons of milk, but. I switched to Carnation Good Start because I didn’t know how to juggle holding him to feed on my breast, and have room for kid #1. All those ridiculous books with their “cuddle your toddler with your other arm”–yeah, right. This kid weighed 10 lbs+ at birth and was 22 inches long. There was no room for Kid #1. I quit nursing when I found her standing on the kitchen table. Safety first. Kid #2 is in the gifted program in HS. No, his bottles were never propped-I haven’t met anyone yet who did that, but I digress.

Kid #3-8 and 1/2. Commited to nursing and did so until he was 6 months old-no supplements. At 6 months, I wanted my breasts back. He spent his entire infancy basically with RSV, croup, bronchiolitis and in the ER. Sickest kid I ever had. He is getting C’s in 3rd grade-at 8 years of age, the other 2 were reading in the 10th and 11th grade levels.
Personally, I put the whole high academic achievement thingy down to my being a SAHM for the first two-it has nothing to do with the source of his nutrition. #3 kid had grandma and grandpa to babysit him, after I went to work when he was 20 months old, PT not FT, so I cannot blame the petri dish of modern day care on his illnesses.

Still, this is all anecdotal and proves zip. Point is, I never bought the whole, “you must breastfeed or you are a lousy mother” bit. I was bottle fed, as were most of my peers-I don’t see anything but a cross-section of humanity when I look at the 40 somethings of today. I will admit to being hostile to LLL. I’m sorry, my experience with them was akin to religious zealotry-um, no thanks.

It’s a personal decision-you don’t hate your baby if you bottle feed. You aren’t a better person or mother if you nurse. If we could get past this nonsense, maybe more people would be willing to try breastfeeding and/or not feel guilty if they need to supplement.

Did I enjoy breastfeeding? Yes, and I wish I had stuck with it for the older two. But, hindsight is 20/20 and sometimes you do what you need to do for you and for the baby.

58

As the one to espouse the “lactivist” point of view here, I have to clarify that the official position is not “you must breastfeed or you are a lousy mother” it’s - “if you are physically capable of breastfeeding and you don’t at least try to do so, you aren’t doing all you can to keep your baby healthy and happy.”

And eleanorigby,I wonder how you could hold a baby, a toddler and a bottle without resorting to bottle propping- to me that seems even more ackward than nursing and holding a toddler (I am not trying to imply that you are being dishonest, just that I am curious about the logistics).

59

One thing I’ve learned about breastfeeding mommies is many of them have to work really hard to bfeed (as detailed upthread), and they do it. And it isn’t fun, doesn’t feel good - is in fact quite bothersome. But it’s their conviction that bfeeding is the way to go, and so they do. I really admire that.

[QUOTE=naotalbah]
“if you are physically capable of breastfeeding and you don’t at least try to do so, you aren’t doing all you can to keep your baby healthy and happy.”
[/QUOTE]

This attitude, OTOH, really pisses me off. I’m sure you’re correct that this is a common view, and it’s exceedingly arrogant and thoroughly presumptuous.

60

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
But you will never, and should never, achieve 100% breastfeeding.
[/QUOTE]

OK, I’ll bite. As to the ‘should’ anyway. Can’t other women be wetnurses?