Juan-
That’s a good point. I know Steinbrenner wants Winnie to have a Yankee hat on his Cooperstown plaque. Don’t be suprised if his number gets retired just before the decision has to be made.
Jman-I know, I’m just repeating what I’ve been told. The idea that the man, Lemieux, was doing it faster and in a quicker time.
Besides, he’s a good guy. He’s the owner now…
Lemieux wasn’t really doing it faster than Gretzky, he had a higher points-per-game than WG because he didn’t have the decline at the end WG did. He has the only 4 200 pt seasons in NHL history. Lemieux would’ve worn down in time - he is considerably bigger than Gretzky, but you could check him - you can’t bodycheck Gretzky squarely in a telephone booth. It would catch up.
You’re arguing that the smaller man would be more durable? That’s pretty weird. Sure, you could check Lemieux, but he could take those checks. Gretzky – and he was quick, but you could get to him eventually – would fare less well if someone knocked his block off. That’s why he had Marty McSorley as his personal bodyguard.
“That’s why he had Marty McSorley as his personal bodyguard.”
Thats it right there. Ya hit Wayne, Marty cleans your clock. That, and come on, Wayne could just make it happen. He had an overall understanding of the game. He had eyes in the back of his head. Wayne knew where everyone on the ice was and could make amazing plays becuase of this.
The Chicago Bears have retired a lot of numbers. The NFL now discourages teams from retiring numbers, but some teams still do.
The Bears have 13 retired numbers:
3 Bronko Nagurski
5 George McAfee
7 George Halas
28 Willie Galimore
34 Walter Payton
40 Gale Sayers
41 Brian Piccolo
42 Sid Luckman
51 Dick Butkus
56 Bill Hewitt
61 Bill George
66 Bulldog Turner
77 Red Grange
The Cleveland Browns retired #45 for Ernie Davis and he never got into a game for them before he passed away. Premature death does seem to be a way to get your uniform number retired in the NFL.
The Buffalo Bills have no retired numbers. Apparently #32 is still up for grabs.
As for Dave Winfield, if he accepts any honors from Steinbrenner then I will officially have to declare him a whore. After the crap he was put through by Steinbrenner, he should wear a Toronto or California cap strictly out of spite.
Not just the smaller man - the man who doesn’t get hit squarely. The same reason Emmitt Smith lasted more carries in the NFL than an Earl Campbell. The “blade of grass survives the storm that fells the oak” idea. Gretzky’s bodyguards (and the primary one was Semenko) were not there for the actual play, but the little “incidentals” after the whistles.
My boys the Orioles now have five retired numbers: #4, Earl Weaver; #5, Brooks Robinson; #20, Frank Robinson; and #33, Eddie Murray.
Cal Ripken, Jr’s #8 will most certainly follow after his (impending) retirement.
The Ravens have not existed long enough to have a numbers retired, although some here in Baltimore have suggested they retire the numbers of certain prominent Colts, such as John Unitas #19, Raymond Berry’s #82, or Artie Donovan’s #70. I personally think that’s silly, though. The Colts are long gone, and the fact that they used to play here really doesn’t matter with respect to the Ravens. Indianapolis can concern themselves with that stuff now.
I’m on the fence about retired numbers. I think it’s a nice gesture, but I also think it’s cool when a player can move from one team to another and keep his uniform number. I used to play a couple different sports and was very superstitious about my number. I always wore #12 and sometimes had to beg and cajole (and bribe once) to get it.
Well, no, they were they to ensure that the play didn’t get too rough in Wayne’s quadrant – if it did, THEN the “incidentals” arose. And sometimes the “incidentals” arose anyway for sheer kicks, because that’s what makes hockey goons feel good.
I hear that! On a similar note, I thought that Catfish Hunter should have had an A’s cap on his Cooperstown plaque. Steinbrenner must be paying these guys off. Clemens better be wearing a Red Sox cap when he goes in.
As nice as it is to retire a number for a truly deserving player, I kind of like to see a number on a current player and remember a favorite from the past that used to wear it. When I see David Justice’s #28, I can’t help but remember Sparky Lyle. Jim Leyritz will always be #13 to me. And if Posada keeps playing like this, everyone will associate #20 with him, but I bet a lot of Red Sox fans think of Bucky Dent when they see it.
The Rookie of the Year Award is actually the “Jackie Robinson Award,” but the term’s not commonly used.
I'm not sure, but I think Boggs had his HOF hat written into a contract - for a sizeable sum.....lurker -
For what team? Please DON’T say the Devil Rays!
Bingo.
That said, the Hall of Fame can put any damned cap on a player’s plaque they want, or no cap at all. The HoF is a private institution, owned by the Clark Foundation, and if they want Wade Boggs in a Red Sox cap, there’s nothing Boggs or Major League Baseball can do about it.
Actually, they can, as long as the Hall charges admission - trademark infringement by the teams, implied endorsements, etc.
Soup, I’m not saying anyhting…but isn’t he a Tampa native?
lurk-
Boggs a Tampa native? I don’t know. And of course, he can wear any cap he wants, it’s his legacy. But for cryin’ out loud, does anyone have to explain why he should wear a Red Sox hat?
This obviously has become more of a point of contention in this era of players moving from team to team. Reggie Jackson has a Yankee cap, but nobody could blame him for choosing an A’s cap (except Steinbrenner). Maybe it will come down to things like hometowns, or where the player had his greatest moment, or which team gives him the best “incentive$”.
I started a http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=33597 on this very subject]thread on this very subject. I covered what I thought were excessive baseball retired uniform numbers.
My thoughts on the Yankees are that Maris’ and Jackson’s numbers were unwarranted. The others, IMHO:
Martin: OK for his combined service as player and manager.
Ruth: No question.
Gehrig: No question
DiMaggio No question
Mantle: No question
Berra: No question
Dickey: No question
Maris: Unjustified*
Rizzuto: OK. Made it to the HOF (even if questionable) and has long history with team.
Munson: Passable. Team captain. However, I feel that had he not met a tragic end, his number would not have been retired.
Ford: Justified. Along with Ruffing and Guidry, the best starters this team has ever had.
Mattingly: Justified. While not (barely, IMHO) a HOF player, he was the heart and soul of this team, as well as captain, for a long time. And for quite a few years, was arguably the best 1B in the game.
Howard: Justified
Stengel: Justified (borders on the “No questions” category.
Jackson: Unjustified. Only put in five seasons with the team. True, they were productive ones, but I don’t think five years should earn you a retired number.
Zev Steinhardt
Zev Steinhardt
Many teams also “unoffically” retire players’ numbers. For instance no one on the Yankees wore #30 while Willie Randolph was playing for other teams. In addition, with one exception (Jeff Johnson, boy was that a mistake) the Yankees never gave Ron Guidry’s #49 to anyone else. The Mets’ (also with one exception) never gave Willie Mays’ #24 to anyone and have announced that the number is no longer available (even though it has not been retired “officially.”
Zev Steinhardt
zev-
I can’t agree with you on Martin or Howard. Martin was not a good enough player to justify retiring the number. And as mentioned earlier, he certainly shouldn’t be honored for his managing before Joe McCarthy. BTW, maybe YOU can tell us: what was McCarthy’s number?
Elston Howard: great player, MVP, but I would say not enough to merit the retirement. I realize that part of the honor is in recognition of his place as the first African-American player on the team, so we’re treading lightly here.
I’m looking at the career, period.
Now, when it comes to Donnie Baseball . . . jeez that’s tough. It would’ve been nice if George could’ve held off for a few years. Look how long Rizzuto had to wait.
No one will probably ever read this, but I have to add my 500 lira into this Lemieux vs. Gretzky thing…
I don’t know for sure which one was better, but it’s pretty compelling to consider Mario Lemieux in good health. To consider what he went through to establish the pace of scoring that he did, I consider him a far more phenomenal athlete than Gretzky.
On top of that, I feel the need to point out that Lemieux played for one of the worst teams in the NHL for years. The penguins sucked for the entirety of the 80’s. Gretzky played on a line where Mark Messier was just another guy - simply one of the great teams in hockey history: a dynasty. When you pass the puck to Mark Messier instead of some no-name, the odds of you getting an assist are much higher.
The issue I’m trying to raise is that points are a deceptive stat, as they rely heavily on the skill of your team. But STILL, through Hodgkin’s and playing on a Twins-like team, Lemieux puts up a solid argument. Amazing.
- Rog