I understand (I think) what Gere was saying. However, it probably wasn’t the appropriate time to say it.
I’m a Christian. If a friend dies, and I know he/she wasn’t a Christian, I’m not going to impose my beliefs on my friend’s spouse at the funeral. “I’m sorry your spouse died. You know, of course, they’re suffering the fires of Hell right now.”
Provide support, be sympathetic. But don’t preach your beliefs (especially if you know they don’t match up with the beliefs of the majority of your audience) at inappropriate times.
Well, I’m glad, as that’s exactly what we are doing, and have been doing, since shortly before 9 a.m. September 11. From the time the first fireman, policeman and EMT put themself in harm’s way for their fellow man as the first tower was just starting to smoke, right up until today, as we are attempting to feed Afghans and avoid hurting them while we go after the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 events.
And I would assume by your interpretation of Mr. Gere’s statement that both he and you don’t really have a problem with some form of military action designed to stop a highly organized terrorism network that just killed more than 5,000 of us and would happily do the same or worse again? Nor against an oppressive government that doesn’t “harness its anger and make good come out of it,” that also happens to be harboring the leadership of said terrorism network?
Because obviously, if you did oppose those things, it would make all of the above words meaningless babble, espousing action which does nothing to protect the citizenry of the Western World from the threat it faces now; and, if diligently followed, actually enhance the threat millions and millions of people face.
Glad to see we’re on the same page.
The actions in Afghanistan aren’t motivated by hatred. They’re motivated by self-defense. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
Osama and the gang are enemies to peace. And they cannot be negotiated with. Peace does not come until they are eliminated.
Maybe I’m a reactionary idiot(may well be true), but there seems to be something, I dunno, judgemental is his words. Like saying ‘I am capable of keeping this thing in rational perspective. You violent heathen savages should follow my lead.’
Any of you get that impression? Or am I a blithering moron?
I am a little abashed if I was taking a swipe at the rescuers–it was my understanding that they made up 6,000 members of a huge audience. Since the camera didn’t pan out to show me exactly which audience members were booing, it didn’t occur to me that it might have been the firemen, police, and EMTs who were doing it. Some of you seem fairly certain on that point.
I will say, however, that no matter how much trauma you suffered, there is a time and a place for booing. When someone has a peaceful and might I also add non-religious sentiment to share with the world (he did not discuss religion), one that millions of Americans buy into, zip your lip and keep your negative reaction to yourself. I noted that someone else said that the great thing about firemen is that they don’t ask your nationality or religion before they save you. They just save you. Was that offensive? Was that anti-american to express a sentiment that lives are lives, that we’re all one people? Where was the booing and the outrage on that one? I thought that was lovely.
I feel that the concert was about unity, and Gere didn’t go against that theme. Booing people (like they did the Clintons, too, I might add) compromises that. I am beginning to understand why Gere’s comments may have seemed offensive to some of you and some of the audience members, but I think that’s a misunderstanding. Not insensitivity on Gere’s part.
I’m willing to agree that Gere should have kept his views to himself, given the place and time. The people he was speaking to don’t want to hear about compassion and understanding, given what they’re living through daily.
Nope, I don’t have a problem with some form of military action against the Taliban and the terrorist organizations. Well, I don’t like that we’re conducting military strikes, but I recognize the necessity of them.
Look, I’m not trying to say that I think we should pelt the Al Quaeda with gumdrops or send pink fuzzy bunnies to bin Laden and the Taliban. We’re doing what we should be doing. It just feels contrary to the spirit of what we’re trying to defend when I see people being condemnded for espousing a different opinion that is consistent with their beliefs.
**
And it was my understanding that the police and fire personnel made up all of the front sections of the concert, and that the event was, ostensibly, for them. (I could be wrong on this.) To give them a little break, a diversion from the horrible work they will be doing every day in Manhattan for about another year.
**
So Richard Gere can express himself whenever he wants, but Joe the Fireman whose brother died on September 11 should keep his yap shut?
I’m interested in what one of those two people says and feels. Guess which one?
To a lot of people, Gere’s reaction was negative. “I hope we can harness our anger and turn it in a peaceful direction” connotes that we haven’t been doing so thusfar. Ergo, that our response to the attacks has been inappropriate. A thoroughly insulting assertion, particularly given the audience to which it was delivered.
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No. It’s a very uplifting point. It’s also completely different from what Gere said.
If the person had said, “I just hope that firemen will not think about a person’s nationality or religion before they enter a burning building to save them,” that person would have been booed.
**
One minor quibble: a small segment of the “all one people” is trying to kill a really big segment. And they’ve been succeeding. They need to be eliminated so that the “all one people” can be safe again.
Showing this particular small segment love and compassion isn’t going to get it done, either, Richard. That only works in your head.
I have no problem with Mr. Gere’s opinion or beliefs, whatever they are. I will defend his right to hold those beliefs. I just don’t think he showed good judgement in holding up his opinion or beliefs at that particular time.
Note, though, that I didn’t see the concert; I’m going strictly by what’s been posted to this thread. I could be off-base if his remarks are being mischaracterized.
I thought he said we should harness our energy, not our anger. Maybe I am misremembering. I thought he was saying to keep the good feeling from the concert going, as opposed to denying people their right to feel pissed. That’s a pretty important difference, and my point is moot if I misheard him.
I realize it makes me sound like Gere has rights to express his feelings and others don’t. That is not, however, what I meant to say. I mean that anyone who has a positive message is welcome to express it that night–whoever they are. Negative, antagonistic, rude comments (booing a prime example) felt wrong to me. And as I said before, I also felt offended by “Opera Man’s” song because amidst a great concert he was saying some real crappy stuff about Osama fucking goats and stuff. Nothing I haven’t thought myself, but it changed the mood of the evening in a way that saddened me.
I have not been able to find an exact transcript of his comments. I’m willing to consider that perhaps many of us, myself included, heard what we wanted to hear. If anybody could provide a brief transcript, that would be really helpful.
And Cranky, I think that booing that occurred was more of a vocalization of disagreement than disrespect. I don’t know if it was primarily the front section that was booing, although in that type of situation, those are usually the only rows that the stage microphones pick up.
I’ve been looking for a transcript and can’t find one, although I found a number of media outlets summarizing his comments in ways that are all over the map. I don’t trust my own memory, especially since I know the perspective I’m bringing to the interpretation.
Seriously though, I was just trying to make it clear that if that is what he meant (that we should lob happy fuzzy bunnies at OBL et al), then he’s a dork.
Actually, we SHOULD send fuzzy pink bunnies to Osama Bin Laden.
Just as Something Awful.
When they started spamming our MB over at Smile and Act Nice, we retaliated by trolling their board in droves, posting pictures of Hello Kitty, bunnies, kittens, puppies, teddy bears-you name it, and posting things like, HUGGLEZ!!!
And WE LUB JOO!!! Super fuzzy nauseating cuteness and niceness. Ooooooh, they were pissed. They called off the attack. Same thing when the Counterstrike Off Topic board started to bug us-with the help of some SA posters who stuck around SAAN as regular members, we went over there and retaliated in the same way-only much much worse. They HATED us.
So I think we need to capture Bin Laden, and stick him in a pink pink pink room with fluffy pillows and girly ribbons and tons of cute and fluffy stuffed animals and just go in there and hug the shit out of him, pinch his cheeks, talk baby talk, etc etc.
Whoa, Cranky - you couldn’t have posted anything that would have lost my support as fast as this did.
In words of one syallable: no fuck king way.
Far from requiring the rescuers, who have worked in ubelieveable hell and lost their brothers, cousins, sisters, parents, and children in this disaster to “zip a lip,” I think it’s Mr. Gere whose lips should have been zipped.
As I said earlier, I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, and he correctly espoused the Buddhist principles of non-violence and compassion. But this event was not the right place to point this out. You don’t go to a suicide’s funeral and point out that the deceased did ti to himself. Everyone knows this. It’s the truth. But that’s not the right time. Nor was this event, ostensibly offered up to firefighters, police, and EMTs in recognition of what they have done, the right place to talk about how they should forgive and offer love. It’s a noble sentiment, horribly mistimed.
At least Mr. Gere gets the benefit of the doubt on several levels - he may well have been speaking extemporaneously, and not considered the effect his remarks would have. Certainly I don’t paint him in a terrible light - just a mistaken one.
You, Cranky, with the benefit of hindsight, of consideration of everything that’s been said here, and with every chance to think it through, posted above that Mr. Gere’s chance to express his philosophy was appropriate, while the people at whom it was directed should “zip” their lips and not respond.
That’s utterly heartless, and you should retract that suggestion. How dare you let it stand, Cranky? How dare you?
Chill, Bricker. Perhaps it was a difference in our interpretation of the rudeness of booing. To me, if you’re in an audience and you don’t agree with what the speaker is saying, you refrain from clapping or cheering. I’ve always believed and been told that booing was utterly rude, callous, and the mark of an uncouth person. It is the height of disrespect and I’d only do it as a joke or to someone who was saying something unspeakably offensive. Not to someone who was saying something that I merely did not agree with.
Clearly, some other people see it quite differently: as a brief, expedient way to express dissent (as opposed to disrespect). I thank the earlier poster who brought that distinction to light. If you believe that, then booing is no big deal and you wouldn’t find it as eye-poppingly rude as I did. And you don’t even have to have some kind of Red Badge of Courage to make it “okay” to do it.
That’s why “I dare.” God, when did we get so damned sanctimonious?!?! “How dare I?” How Dare I?
What the hell is that? Now differences in opinion in the Pit are the kind of things that make people fall to their knees and ask god why oh why?
If those audience members were raised to believe it’s a valid way to express dissent, then I’ll gladly say that yes, their booing was not as unexcusable as I personally first found it. It’s a difference between them and me, one which I regret greatly. If they meant to be as rude as I find it, then yes, I think they deserve my disappointment. Loss, disability, handicap, heroism medals, trauma, or a shitty life does not give anyone the right to be deliberately unkind without suffering the approbation of others. No hall pass for rudeness.
I guess religious sediments were way out of place at the 'Concert For New York."
Maybe someone should have mentioned that to all the 'asshole Hollywood celebrities" that kept saying 'GOD bless America"
There is a time and place for religion, I guess it is not at a benefit concert thats goal, besides raising money, was to show compassion, respect, and love to the NYC firefighters and policemen.
Seriously, I dont think anything Mr. Gere said was inapropriate. These people (NYC firefighters and police) seem to me to be the people in this country who are in the most need for compassion and peace.
peace,
JB
Not every difference is merely one of “opinion,” nor does “opinion” excuse any position one cares to take. As you might expect, I don’t agree that my view, or my question, was sanctimonious; I found your off-handed, flippant advice to the firefighters to “zip their lips” to be… well… off-handed and flippant. Asking you how you dared be flippant to those people, then, was hardly sanctimonious.
However, I agree we seem hung on the horns of the question, “What does booing signify?”
In my humble view, booing is an appropriate means of expressing dissent, under certain circumstances. Attendees at a public political debate should not boo a candidate, because the purpose of the event is to air presumably opposing views. But at a rally for your candidate, it wouldn’t be uncouth for the audience to boo at some mention of an opponent’s plans, slogan, or platform.
A school pep rally should permit booing at the mention of the opposition team; the purpose of the pep rally is to unify the school against the opponent. A district awards ceremony, in which athletes from various schools are honored, shouldn’t be sullied by boos.
Attendees at concert being given, ostensibly, in part to thank them for their work on a disaster, have every right to boo when it’s suggested that the perpetrators of that disaster are entitled to love and understanding from the victims thereof.
I don’t mind the defense of Gere, Cranky – but I really wish you’d withdraw your suggestion that the attendees “zip their lips.”
And until you do – boo to you. Hopefully, that’s not too sanctimonious for you. Boo! Boo!
