And for the record, that picture was taken by me while riding on the back of our motorcycle up the coast from L.A. to San Francisco. I am telling you that there are precious few places where anyone would feel safe pulling over under any conditions, let alone in the dark of night. Now go ahead and call me a liar.**
[/quote]
I’m not calling you a liar (yet). Let me ask you this, and please give me an honest answer. Are you claiming that there are significiant stretches of the Pacific Coast Highway where it is difficult or impossible to allow a car following you to pass?
If so, where are the stretches and how long are they?
lucwarm, you’re either one of the most disingenous posters on this board or you need to go back to school and enroll in Reading Comprhension 101. Nowhere did I say that a car following a slow-moving vehicle on PCH would have a difficult or impossible time passing. You demanded a description of a place where it would be impossible for the lead car to pull over. I provided that.
Stop playing your stupid word-twisting games and look at the damn picture. No matter what rate of speed, be it 15mph or 5mph, one could not pull overanywhere without driving over the edge of the cliff into the ocean or ramming into the mountainside.
If the speed limit is 35 and I’m travelling 30, at night, and you don’t like it, you have 2 choices; pass me at the first available straightaway where you feel safe doing so, or maintain the appropriate safe distance behind me until you can pass me – and here’s the important part – no matter whether I ride the center of the lane or move over 6 inches to the right, which is all the damn room I have.
I am not legally or morally obligated to pull over for anyone under such conditions. And I promise you, if you ride my ass I most certainly will slow down to a slow enough rate of speed where I feel more comfortable driving, in the event you slam into the back of me (there’s far less risk if you hit me going 15mph than 30) and where I believe you have a better chance to move around me.
In MY opinion 15mph is plenty slow enough for you to interpret that I’m allowing you to pass. If you don’t take the first available opportunityto do so, that’s your problem, not mine.
Umm, nowhere did I say you were saying that. That’s why I asked you if you were saying that.
**
Perhaps you missed it when I said the following:
In any event, let me say that by “pulling over,” I mean getting as far to the right as possible and either stopping or moving at a slow enough speed, under the circumstances, to allow traffic behind you to pass about as easily as if you were stopped.
**
Maybe so, but one of the issues in this thread is whether it is generally possible to allow a tailgater to pass. If this can generally be done, even without leaving the road, it supports my position.
So it’s not me who’s playing word games here. I admit that the phrase “pull over” is potentially ambiguous. But again, the critical question is whether it’s generally possible to allow a tailgater to pass, not whether it’s generally possible to pull off the road.
And for the record, I am happy to concede that it’s not always possible to pull off the road.
**
Actually, I don’t think that’s correct. In some jurisdictions, there is an offense known as something like “impeding traffic.” In effect, you are required to let following traffic pass under certain circumstances. I would also imagine that you are legally obliged to pull over if the car behind you happens to be an emergency vehicle.
**
In MY opinion, it would depend on the circumstances.
You have stated that you have never seen a road where there is more than a mile between pull off points. You have also stated that you have stopped to let tailgaters pass. I assume that this is not at a turnoff point, since the OP did not say that he would have not have pulled off if it were possible. Does this mean that you have stopped in a travel lane when there is less than a mile to where you could have safely pulled over?
Note that the OP stated that the tailgater had his brights on and beeped his horn before the OP slowed down. Were the tailgaters you stopped for this aggressive? Was your mother in the car at the time?
The math posted indicated that it would take only 92 more feet to pass at 15 mph than stopped. How many places can you think of where 92 feet would make a difference between passing safely and not passing safely? Also, even if the OP stopped and pulled over the one foot or so that he could, the tailgater would still have to cross the yellow line to pass. Why would this make a difference? Finally, if WW went back up to the speed he thought was safe before the tailgater arrived, do you think the tailgater would be either mollified or more likely to pass?
How many more examples of similar roads do you need to get a clue? Long stretches of the road up to Tahoe are just like this. There are pull off spots, but they are a lot more than a mile apart. I don’t go a lot, but when I have cars behind a slow moving car wait patiently until a pull off comes, and then the car in front pulls off. I can give a bunch more in California, but it seems pointless.
I’ve been on the road Shayna mentions. It is just as she(?) says. Ditto for the stretch north of San Francisco. If you doubt me, try renting Basic Instinct some time. A mile or even 10 is not very much for a place like backwoods California.
For the record, I would have sped up a bit once the cars started piling up behind the tailgater, but until then WW did exactly the right thing.
claiming that the tailgater had a valid reason for not passing on the double yellow, either he was a “law-abiding citizen” and/or he was supposedly “being a safe driver” by not passing in a potentially dangerous to pass at 15 mph area.
Note that quote marks don’t necessarily indicate quotes, they can also be used as a way to indicate paraprased comments. In your previous posts on this particular part of the subject, you imply that the tailgater wouldn’t pass the double yellow because he was either “obeying” (parhaphrasing) them, or that he was supposedly not able to due to conditions.
First of all, that has nothing to do with that which we’re discussing. It’s your contention that the OP was being a jerk by slowing down. Is it your contention that any tailgatee who slows down due to being half-blinded by someone’s headlights and/or has them riding on their bumper is the one being unsafe?
To answer your question, no, I don’t think that in EVERY single case the tailgater, for whatever reason, is able to pass. So what? This has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
quote:
As I stated in the post which you quote here, I already DID, as have others. But since you seem incapable of retaining information, I’ll repeat it for you.
The stretch of road “in the pass” north of Wasilla/Palmer, Alaska contains several stretches of road that fit this description, including several where there is construction and it’s down to one lane with a pilot car only.
Are you sure you’ve got a degree from college? Read my paragraph, it’s self-explanatory. One, one and only one way, and only one direction at a time. Have you EVER been out of the city in your life? Based on your posts, it doesn’t seem so.
quote:
Moose Pass Alaska, for about 10 miles north of the 'town" until you enter the “city” limit. From Moose Pass south to the town of Seward, until about 15 miles north of Seward.
You do have trouble retaining information don’t you. You DID ask us to provide examples of the road such as the OP described, remember? One with only 2 lanes, one each direction.
quote:
I didn’t say that public service announcements said YOUR advice was unsafe,
[quote]
Here’s what you said:
quote:
Your opinion about what should be done is unrealistic, unsafe, and unsupported by most, not only in this thread, but by what is recommended by authorities.
. . .
You disagree? The proof of what I just said is both in this thread, and in law enforcement “public announcements”.
[quote]
quote:
Don’t get cute and try twisting what others say.
Despite law school, you apparently didn’t learn reading comprehension.
Read my sentence again. “your opinion about what should be done is unrealistic, unsafe, and unsupported by most, not only in this thread, but by what is recommended by authorities.”
The “your opinion” that I refer to is where you’ve stated in this thread that the OP should have stopped. You’ve stated that as fact. Most people in this thread have not agreed with that opinion. Most law enforcement officials, when they have those “Road Rage” public service announcements and so on, also do NOT agree that stopping is a safe thing to do.
It really wasn’t all that complicated for you to have figured that out on your own.
.
I’m not sure that’s quite what I said (feel free to quote me), but I’ll try to answer your questions.
**
This I agree with.
**
If by “turnoff point,” you mean a hard shoulder or some other place where one can completely pull off the road, then yeah - I’ve pulled over for tailgaters at places that were not turnoff points.
I can’t recall if the OP conceded that there were places he could have pulled off entirely.
**
I assume that by “stopped in a travel lane,” you mean stopped in a place where I haven’t completely pulled off the road. The answer is “yes.” And I’m sure it must have happened that I’ve made such a stop within a mile of a place where I could have completely pulled off the road.
**
A few times, I’ve been in front of tailgaters that were just as aggressive. As I recall, I stopped for one once by pulling onto the shoulder of an interstate highway. Other times, I simply changed lanes. I’ve been tailgated on two-lane country roads before, but not by anyone as aggressive as the person who tailgated the OP. My mother was never with me for any of these events.
**
I’ll have to check the math and get back to you.
**
I think one should give the person as much room as possible. Both for the sake of safety and so he understands that you want him to pass. Admittedly, there may be situations where the few feet you pull over wouldn’t really make a difference, but there’s no reason not to.
**
I’m not sure if I understand your question, but I imagine that the tailgater would be less annoyed being stuck behind someone going 30 than 15. As far as the likelihood of passing goes, I believe that the tailgater did not have a reasonable opportunity to pass at either speed. So it doesn’t make a lot of sense to compare likelihoods.
**
That’s wonderful. I concede that if you are being tailgated aggressively, and know that a pull off spot is near, it may make sense to wait for the pull off spot. It would depend upon the circumstances.
None of this changes the fact that if you deliberately impede a tailgater to punish and retaliate against him, you’re being a jerk.
**
I hate to do this for fear of getting into a “definition of the word “IS”” type discussion, but you’ll have to define what you mean by “allow” the other person to pass.
If you mean "Pull off to the side of the road onto a shoulder and come to a complete halt with no fear that A) you’ll scrape your car up against the side of the mountain or B) fall off the mountain (depending on which direction you’re going) then yes. There are stretches where it’s impossible to let people pass. If you mean something else by “allow”, you’ll have to clarify what you mean.
**
IF I grant that there are huge, well-lit paved pull-aside areas on the shoulder with lit signs saying “PULL OVER HERE! LET FASTER CARS PASS!” and I don’t do so, then yeah, maybe that would further incite the already psychotic driver. Then again, given that he’s already shown himself to be road-raging and irrational, pulling over might just give him the opportunity to throw a beer-bottle at me (or worse). He’s nuts. Demonstrably, given that he’s tailgating on a narrow road in the middle of nowhere.
HOWEVER, since that is not the case presented, I’d like how you’d handle a real situation that I’ve personally been in.
Asshole behind you is tailgating, brights on and honking. You’re on a mountain road. The road has about a 4-6 inch shoulder on either side. You know the road widens out in about 5-6 miles, but until then, it’s carved onto the face of the mountain and it’s barely wide enough to allow one vehicle going in either direction. There are hairpin turns every 100 feet or so. On one side, a mountain cliff with about a 4 foot deep ditch seperating the road from the mountain. On the other side, there are single picket reflector posts, but no guard rail and a pretty steep 100 foot slope/drop.
There’s no moon out (like in the OP. I looked it up.) so there’s no ambient light. Your night vision is shot because of the brights in your eyes. You’re not able to clearly distinguish exactly where the edge of the road is. The moron behind you is driving more and more aggressively, flipping you off, yelling out the window. You don’t have a cell-phone, it’s at least 20 miles to the nearest town. At best.
What do you do? Do you try to pull over? (Careful, that first step is a doozy!) Do you slow down even more? You’ve already slowed down to about 15 mph, which would easily allow the guy behind you to pass between one of the hairpin turns, but he seems to be more interested in “getting even” by flashing his brights, honking and flipping you off. Do you stop? In the middle of the road?
I’ve actually been in that specific situation. So tell me, Mario Andretti, how would you have dealt with it?
**
Good fuck, you idiot. READ WHAT I WROTE. If it was “super-easy” for the tailgater to pass one single car, IT DOES NOT FOLLOW that it’s “super-easy” for the person pb]seven** cars backto pass the other six cars and the guy in front. I can jump over a single 3 foot high box. I cannot jump over a stack of 6 3 foot high boxes. Geddit?
You claim lots of varied driving experience? I call “bullshit” and say that you’ve never driven on a windy mountain road where there are hairpin turns every few hundred feet with ZERO visiblity past the turn. One car might safely pass another single car. It would be impossible to pass a line of them. :rolleyes: I’m reluctantly coming to the same conclusion that Thea Logica did.
Of course there are conditions where a tailgater can’t pass, again, as asked and answered above, this has NOTHING to do with the argument at hand, if the tailgater can’t pass, in other words, the conditions are such that the tailgatee can’t pull over, and the tailgater isn’t satisfied with the speed the tailgatee is going, so WHAT?
The tailgatee is in the right. He/she isn’t going to be “pushed” into driving faster than conditions allow, or to be forced to stop on a deserted stretch of road in front of a potention road rage psycho.
If the conditions are THAT bad that the tailgater is physically unable to pass at a whopping 15mph, then they are BAD enough that he would be irresponsible to do so at 5 mph.
quote:
Pardon me, but have you MET automobiles? You may be a lawyer, but based on your posts you seem to have no knowledge regarding cars and their operation, and the physics and mechanics involved.
That’s not what I asked/commented on. I didn’t ask if you had experience with the law side of automobile incidents. I asked if you had experience with the mechanics/physics of them, it doesn’t seem so, as you think that 15 mph is “too fast for someone to pass”.
Again, knowing, or practicing law where accidents/incidents are concerned has nothing to do with whether or not you understand vehicular operations, speeds, conditions, etc.
As to you comment “the OP knows he was impeding him”. The OP was doing the best he could in the circumstances he was given. It’s entirely possible for the road to have allowed one person to pass at 5mph, but not another, even as it would for 15mph. You keep conveniently forgetting that the OP had no place to pull over and that depending upon the circumstances it might have been more unsafe to stop than to continue as best he could.
quote:
15 mph, is not an unsafe speed at which to pass, in most conditions.
Which doesn’t in any way prove your contention that the OP was lying. It’s very possible that there are conditions where no one can pass. Again, so what? If the conditions are THAT bad, the tailgater should NOT be passing, or tailgating, and the responsibility lies 100% with him, not with the frontrunner, doing the best he can under the circumstances, not even if his safer driving practices ARE impeding the tailgater. Impeding the tailgater doesn’t equal being a jerk, nor EVEN being at fault. You’re trying to make that correlation and it doesn’t fly.
You hit someone from the rear, at least in Alaska, you are 100% at fault. But he “impeded” me isn’t likely to cut it with the cop, the judge or the insurance company.
quote:
You keep changing your story. First you said he should have stopped. Then, when given perfectly acceptable reasons why this wasn’t a good idea, you decided upon a number that YOU deemed an acceptable speed which wouldn’t, in your words “impede” the tailgater from passing.
Asked and answered.
quote:
Despite the information and expertise from several other posters, you’ve decided, likely so that you can defend your right to slam the OP, that your magic number of 5mph, or below is the ONLY acceptable number, aside from stopping.
I drove home on a stretch of road today for a few moments at 15mph, ON the snow and ice and in a similar condition to the OPs. On a road with hills and a double yellow and oncoming traffic, a road approximately five miles long until my turnoff. O’Malley in Anchorage if you need further “proof” that these roads DO exist.
Now, this was twilight, we don’t get sun-up until nearly 10 am, there are no lights on this road, other than at a few intersections. There are driveways and side roads though, but even though I didn’t pull into any, the older model dodge plow truck that came upon my experiment had NO trouble passing me at 15mph. 5 mph, on that road would have been much MORE dangerous thanks to the ice and snow.
{PS, thank you anonymous old dodge snow plow, from the caddy that confused you this am}
quote:
The silliest thing is, that you have no reason, other than to diss the OP, for clinging so strenuously to your POV.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------/
No, I don’t think he was purposely trying to impede the tailgater. Based on his words, I believe he was trying to do the best he could under unsafe and somewhat frightening conditions. But none of us other than the OP know that.
That said, HAD he simply stayed at his original 30mph, how would that have changed things? The OP did the correct and recommended things, he tapped his brakes, and slowed. The tailgater refused to get it. And he would have been “impeded” either way. The front car has NO responsibility to ensure that other cars get to barrel on down the road however fast they want to.
The tailgater was being impeded by HIS own desire for speed, NOT by any other vehicles on the road. That type isn’t happy unless they’re the only ones on the road, and can drive the speed they want. Regardless of the OPs actions, OR his secret thoughts, the tailgater wouldn’t have been able to pass at the OP’s original speed either.
ANYONE who’s driven in the mountains, in rural areas, on unpaved roads will tell you that there are long stretchs where there are NO shoulder and no turn-offs.
Did your mommy drop you on your head when you were an infant?
Sheesh!! At LEAST 10 poster’s have not only said this, but described road after road that fit this description (including mine regarding construction on the Glenn Hwy heading to Squarebanks), AND at least two posters that have given you pwetty little pictures to illustrate their points!
You have been told over and over and over and over that stopping under the circumstances described in the OP is either not possible (because then it would impede the flow of traffic by blocking the entire lane in a no passing zone) or too dangerous (because a proven agressive driver [he approached from behind too fast, flashed his lights and honked] is behind you). So STOP suggesting people STOP in the middle of the damn road. It makes you look like an even bigger ass (if that’s at all possible).
Secondly, moving at 15mph is “moving at a slow enough speed, under the circumstances, to allow traffic behind you to pass.” In fact, it’s SAFER to pass a moving vehicle whose speed you’re able to pace than it is to get around a car that just plain stops. Really. It is. If the car in front of you just plain stops, you either have to dangerously swerve in order to avoid it, or come to a stop, yourself. And trying to gain enough speed to pass from a dead stop is ridiculously unsafe given the conditions.
Do you even read the words you, yourself, type? You just supported our position, not your own. Slowing to 15mph does “generally” make it possible for a tailgater to pass, even if the lead vehicle doesn’t leave the road. What the hell makes you think it doesn’t? The fact that the tailgater in the OP chose not to in spite of the opportunity afforded him?
Then quit demanding that people offer up proof of things that you admit aren’t nearly as important as whether the offending tailgater can swing his ass around a car going 15mph.
Finally!
You claim to be an attorney and the best you can offer here is your “imagination”?
First of all, let’s talk speed limits. Speed limits are exactly that, limits. They aren’t requirements that you go exactly that fast. And given the conditions described in the OP (a narrow, 2-lane road, unlit, with no shoulder, at night), driving 30mph where there’s a posted 35mph maximum is not only legal, it’s also safer. Since the OPer doesn’t reveal his location and I’m in California, I’ll quote the relevant California support for this:
With regard to driving too slowly:
It is not unreasonable to go 30mph on a dark, 2-lane, no-shoulder road where the posted speed maximum is only 35. Therefore, in California at least, the OPer would not be in danger of being ticketed for “impeding” traffic. And before you go there, the only reason the OPer slowed to 15mph is because the driver of the tailgating vehicle made it unsafe for him to go any faster by approaching at an excessive speed and shining his highbeams into every mirror of the OPer’s car. And in an effort to allow him to pass.
With regard to pulling over on 2-lane roads:
I contend that on a stretch of road such as shown in the picture I provided, it is not safe to pull to the side of the road, since there is a significant dropoff with no guard rails on one side and a freaking mountain on the other. So again, I’m in no danger of violating California laws by driving at a safe 30mph on a dark, 2-lane, no shoulder mountain road. So back off.
And if the car behind happens to be an emergency vehicle, the entire crux of this post completely changes! No one but a complete moron wouldn’t do everything in their power to yield the right of way to an emergency vehicle, and I’m reasonably sure the OPer, if approached under identical conditions by an ambulance, would have pulled over the available 6 inches, slowed down significantly and if he hadn’t been passed already by the time he’d reached 15mph, would have continued to slow to an eventual stop, if necessary, though I don’t believe it would have been, because the ambulance would’ve already been around him by that point! The OPer had no reason to fear an approaching ambulance, for heaven’s sake!
Now, shall we discuss all the laws the tailgater that you’re so staunchly supporting here broke? [ul] [li]Speeding (I shouldn’t need any support to show that speeding is against the law, right?)[/li][li]Illegal use of his horn: “Do not sound your horn unless it is as a safety warning.” [/li][li]Following too close to the car in front of him: “The driver of a motor vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of such vehicle and the traffic upon, and the condition of, the roadway.”[/ul] [/li]
Now let me share a little story with you, in spite of the fact that anecdotal “evidence” is generally frowned upon as support in most arguments at the Straight Dope, I believe it makes my point quite well, so I’m going to tell it anyway. On a road trip between St. Louis and Kansas City, I was driving on Interstate 70, which had 2 lanes going each direction and a posted speed limit (at that time) of 55mph. In the far right lane was a line of cars, all going approximately 45mph. Why? Because a Missouri State Trooper was also in that lane and they were apparently all scared shitless of being pulled over for speeding.
Well there’s certainly no law against going at the speed limit under dry, daylight conditions and I’d be damned if I was going to go for miles and miles and miles creeping along the freeway. So I pulled into the passing lane to get around the line of traffic. Unfortunately, the right lane wasn’t the only lane where idiots were too scared to drive 55mph. Having already passed the State Trooper, I approached a car in the left-hand lane who was also only going about 45mph, impeding my ability to pass him. He’s “driving” in the “passing” lane, and going at a reduced speed. And we’ve all seen the signs that require slower traffic to keep to the right, right?
So after a few minutes of following him and him making no indication that he had any intention of moving out of my way, I flashed my lights at him – a common signal requesting someone to move over. He complied and I accellerated past him and then moved over into the right-hand lane once I’d cleared him, never exceeding 55mph.
Can you guess what happened next? Someone got pulled over and was given a ticket. And let me give you a hint; it wasn’t the guy who was going too slow in the passing lane and impeding the flow of traffic.
**I have already argued the issue, you boob. Why is it so hard for you to get your brain around that fact?
**It don’t, do it?
**Sorry, sparky, you said this:
** Not, “You haven’t continued to argue this point.” There is only one meaning for “It’s the argument that you have ignored – that nobody else who was held up by the OP passed him.” And that would be, oh, lemme think, that I have ignored this argument. Note your use of the past perfect tense–“you have ignored”–without any sort of time qualifier; curious you didn’t use the simple past tense if you meant I ignored it just in that particular instance. Now, don’t make me diagram a sentence, bub.
Anyway, you may take this as your cue to start dancing again, Señor Weasel.
Poor, poor lucwarm. Only in that little snowglobe that you call your brain could our exchange lead to this conclusion.
Wow, this is going no where. I and I agree with both sides.
I drive over the continental divide twice every day. On a two lane state highway. I leave at 6am so it is dark in the morning for 4 months out of the year. I’ve done this for 11 years.
It’s a very twisty road, with lots of hair pins. Posted speed anywhere from 15 to 50mph. I know the road. I know where I can get off to let people that are going to fast (IMO) to get by.
I also know where I can safely pass.
But I let them buy. Safer for every one. Or at least for me. I know the road. I know the conditions. I know where the road does not get sun.
The person following the OP with his brights on and honking his horn was an idiot. He either was a total road rage idiot that knew the road (he could go faster). Or a total road rage idiot that didn’t realize the condition/layout of the road (THOUGHT he could go faster).
The OP may not have done the correct thing. And I agree with lucwarm that it sounds a bit like he slowed down to piss of Mr. Bright lights.
There are very few mountain roads, at least in Colorado where you can’t pass when someone is going 15 miles an hour. At least somewhere.
Most paved roads in this country that have a center stripe are 12 feet wide in each travel lane. Did the OP hug the center stripe a bit, for fear of getting near the edge? Maybe. Not uncommon for people not used to driving on mountain roads.
Was there really no place to pass. Or no pull offs for that distance (was it 20 miles?). Maybe. Doubt it. But if the OP felt it unsafe to pull off. He may have done the right thing by going slow.
If the OP sped up, he may have very well had the same ass on his tail, only at 40mph.
None of the pictures I have seen submited re this OP would prevent a car from passing another car going 15mph. Night or day (depending on traffic of course).
None of those are really bad roads IMO. They may be tough if the car you where passing was going 40-60mph. But 15mph?
Perhaps both the OP and Mr. Bright lights where in the wrong. I sure don’t think I would just stop if someone was being agressive behind me. But I would also try to adjust my mirrors and speed up a bit to take the pressure off.
It is up to the overtaking car to figure it out, or drop back.
It occurs to me, that despite the complications that luc is trying to throw into this thread, the title says it all.
Strictly logically speaking(in other words, leaving out all “which one was a jerk” questions/arguments), most people, when faced with some idiot screaming up on their bumpers, lights flaring, and horn blaring are NOT going to think "oh gosh, I must be holding him up, I’d better speed up.
Most people will refuse to be “forced” into the action the tailgater wants and will slow down, effectively putting the ball back in his court.
Whether or not this is “being a jerk back”? Pretty moot point, I’d wager that 99% of the time the tailgater is not going to get anywhere, period. And in fact, the whole “barreling up on someone’s ass flashing lights/blaring horn” thing is going to get him the OPPOSITE of what he is thinking will happen. (assuming that “what he wants” is for the front car to bow down to his “greatness” and speed up or move over).
And one other point? Jerkness or not on the front car’s part, if there is an accident, the tailgater, being behind and 'in control" is likely to be the one cited and at fault.
In California, there are roads where the only places to let people pass are turnoff points built into the side of the road. However, any wide shoulder will do. I’ve used them when people were behind me, and people in front of me have used them. The OP specifically said that there was no such place on this stretch of road. I’m glad that you’ve finally admitted such places exist.
Then I submit you did a damn fool thing, and are lucky some car didn’t smack into you. On our interstates several people have been killed stopping on the shoulder. The car directly behind you might notice you have stopped, but there might be a car behind him who did not. My office mate in grad school was behind a slow car, which stopped. She pulled around it - and slammed directly into a cow. Cow dead, car with lots of damage, no human hurt. I doubt that any policeman would say that stopping like you did was particularly smart.
One issue about passing is the amount of time you have to be in the opposite lane. In this case there is not much difference. The other is whether you would collide with another car coming unexpectedly. It appears that the tailgater would even if the OP pulled over the little bit he could. Then there is the issue of crossing the line, which the tailgater would have to do in either case.
I can imagine, and have been on, roads where passing would be impossible or very dangerous for miles - mountain switchbacks, for instance. Since the OP was surprised that the tailgater did not pass, this does not seem to be the case here. If it was, the OP stopping would have made no difference at all.
No, since the tailgater was aggressive when the OP was going 30. There were narrow roads one place I lived, and I could drive them much faster than someone experiencing them for the first time. Being behind someone going 15 mph slower than you could is frustrating, but no excuse for the tailgater’s behavior. If the OP did go back up to 30, the tailgater would no doubt be just as mad, and passing would be more dangerous.
No, it never makes sense to risk a collision because someone behind you is pressuring you. It always makes sense to wait for a turnoff (unless there is an emergency vehicle behind you). Anything else is reckless.
Ok, the 6-mile comment was my fault for not seeing it upon review, luc.
Now back to ripping. As I’ve wag’d, you have to be an undergrad student looking to law school and trying to practice your chops. If you are, in fact, a lawyer do us all a favor and state the law firm so none of us ever have to rely on your services.
If I’m driving my car on a highway and come upon someone going 5mph under the limit, I’ll either slow down to enjoy the ride, or pass and go on with my life. See, I’m not an asshole, so I wouldn’t turn the hi-beams on and start honking inches from the guy’s bumper.
Now, if the guy slows to 15 mph, do I think he’s fucking with me? HELL NO! I realize by that point, though I’m not a lawyer and therefore have common sense so it wouldn’t get to that point, that maybe the guy WANTS me to pass! What a shock to encounter a curteous driver!
Also, outside your little world, most highways do NOT have minimum speeds. This allows farm equiptment to travel. Did you think a farmer airlifted the John Deere to the field?
Not an unreasonable position. For what it’s worth, I’m not totally sure on this point either. Note that other folks in this thread seem convinced that the tailgater was able to pass.
That’s funny, I’ve always used quote marks when I’m actually quoting stuff. I’ve always assumed that that’s why they’re called QUOTE marks. Maybe they should have a new punctuation device called “stuff-I-made-up” marks. I imagine you’d find them handy.
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Nope. If they slow down to punish and retaliate against the tailgater, they are being a jerk.
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I’m unsurprised that you can’t see the relevance. However, your concession shows that it’s not necessarily inconsistent for a tailgater to break the law and drive unsafely by tailgating and yet at the same not not break the law and drive unsafely by passing. Thus your argument fails.
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Whatever. It was unclear to me, oh master of clarity. Maybe you should have used more quote marks.
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I concede that on such a stretch of road - with only one lane available for both directions of traffic, it would be impossible to allow the car behind you to pass. As far as I can tell, this is totally irrelevant to the situation described in the OP.
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I’ve lived all over the United States, for what it’s worth.
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I believe I asked for examples of roads where it is impossible to allow the car behind you to pass. Is it your position that the road you described in Alaska (which has 2 lanes, one in each direction) meets that qualification?
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Spare me your weaseling ok? How about you QUOTE something I said and QUOTE a public service announcement that contradicts it?
I realize it’s harder to do that than to just make stuff up, but it’s a lot more persuasive.
Nope. If I’d given the guy a reasonable opportunity to pass and he had declined it and instead continued to tailgate me aggressively, I would continue to drive at the fastest speed I felt comfortable at to the nearest populated area.
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Maybe for the guy seven cars back, but there are also folks who are one and two cars back.
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So it sounds like you agree that it’s possible, in the situation described by the OP, that the tailgater did NOT have a reasonable opportunity to pass?
As far as my driving experience goes, I’ve got lots of it, I can’t prove it, there it is.
lucwarm, you seem to like to mention living all over the US. Can you tell us where? A very basic imagination should give us 4 or 5 areas. You seem hellbent on cites, so give us some. You are getting very boring. You succeeded in getting some of us mad and confrontational, but it’s becoming pablum.
As I’ve asserted earlier (twice) you must be a pre-law student. You have yet to refute it. I’m convinced you are trying to rile us up to see what arguments might hold water in a trial.
As far as quoting a public service announcement to denounce PSA’s that you assert? Where is the PSA that you cite.
Jesus H Christ, every day I find another reason to hate lawyers.
lucwarm is your legacy, what a fucking worthless life-form
