Rodgers & Hammerstein's Carousel--what were they trying to get at?

[Fenris]

@Rhawk6278

. The reason Billy hits his daughter Louise is that to that point in the show (while it’s been 15 years on Earth since Billy died for him it has only been 15 minutes) he hasn’t learned anything. But when he hits his daughter, in a way hitting a part of himself, and he sees her reaction that is what makes him, so to speak, see the error of his ways - of how he is the reason her life has been what it has. Louise has a strong inner character - she’d have to putting up with 15 years of verbal abuse from the town. Billy’s whispered encouragement is just the last little push she needs to fully believe in herself.

< snip >

      Several of the points the show is trying to make (and I do agree that if badly directed or performed, these can be completely lost) are a) society tends to jump to conclussions without proof that can damage lives b) no matter how much you may love someone, if you're not both emotionally mature it's going to be a struggle c)the sins of the parent are revisited upon their children d) getting married just to be a married is a bad idea e) marriage needs to be equal to work f) Wrong doings regardless of noble intentions are still wrong among others.

Excellent post Rhawk. Carousel is such an important musical (the “Bench” scene is probably tied with the end of the first act of My Fair Lady for absolutely perfect integration of song/story/dance) and R&H were such consummate professionals that I knew that there had to be more than what I was seeing.

I really appreciate the explanation. It helps me understand the show a lot better. Thanks!

[David_Couch]

I just wanted to say how great it is to read a real discussion on a web page, where people go back and forth thoughtfully and even change their minds a little as they go!

[njtt]

@want2know

Just a slight hijack in defense of Jones & Schmidt:
Remember, The Fantasticks was written 50 years ago. Although the word “rape” has always had the meaning it has now, I think they meant it in its more classical meaning of “abduction” or “theft” (as in the poem The Rape of the Lock).

As someone who was around 50 years ago, I can’t agree with that. Back then, “rape” meant a violent attack on a woman, with sex forced upon her either through sheer physical force or threat of imminent death, or serious injury and pain, if she did not comply. It was something considerably worse than it is now, because it did not include such things as having sex with a woman who agrees to it only because she is drunk (or any number of things well short of violent attacks that now get counted as rape). If it was taken less seriously as a problem, that was because it was thought to be very rare (as, under that description, it almost certainly was).

Maybe though, the word was being used more as it would have been at the time the action was set, rather than when the musical was written, and so it might not have such a strongly violent and sexual connotation. I should have thought a lot of people in the 1960s would have been fairly shocked by the word being so carelessly bandied about, though.

[Cypher_s_One_Fan]

@Sir_Prize

I have no sympathy for Billy and he didn’t earn his place in heaven.

Billy’s characterization is troubling. I think that he is an awful person and is the show does nothing to make me care about him. I think that Carousel tries really hard to initiate discussion on domestic abuse that should be had, but it fails because it when it should get insightful, the show gets lazy and just says “it’s all good” without probing deeper.

I have some theological problems with your last statement though. As a Christian, I believe that everyone does things that could get us kicked out of heaven. Most people do those things daily. No one could ever “earn” their way to heaven. I believe that if someone asks for forgiveness, even in their dying moments, they get it. (Sorry to all non-Christians that read that)

However, all of the theology in this show is kind of bullshit, but I will save that rant for when it becomes relevant.