I just read about another tax dodge, the “charitable remainder unitrust,” which Romney uses to get tax deductions for charitable contributions of untaxed capital gains, while actually getting most of the financial benefit himself. The practice is so blatantly dodgy that even the IRS now forbids it, but Romney’s CRUT was set up early enough to get “grandfathered in.”
I suppose that it’s “un-American class warfare” to denounce any tax avoidance scheme, no matter how slimy, unless it’s actually prosecutable, but I think Americans deserve to know how this man accumulates his wealth, and the nature of his “charitable” contributions.
The thing that gets me is that you’re correct- it’s somehow admirable to pay as little tax as possible, no matter how much money you make. But if you’re below the poverty level, and you use food stamps to feed your kids… suddenly you’re a despicable “welfare queen”.
They’re right, though- it *is *class warfare. They don’t seem to understand, however, that the rich started the war, have all the guns, and are winning.
Totally agree. I’m part of the 1%. When you have money it is so easy to make money with little or no effort. You also are privileged to many untaxed benefits. Too many of the rich are the biggest whiners and are actually the recipients of the most welfare. I’ll define welfare as getting money from others that you didn’t work for.
Mitt, Steve Forbes and your ilk, YOU are on welfare so STFU and go away.
In a sense, I can’t lose in this election. Either the guy I morally agree with wins or they guy that will hand me a ton of money wins. I do vow, if Romney wins I will use every tax dodge I can possibly find. For instance, I will have a year end estimate done by my tax accountant and take that number and put it into a charitable foundation. I pay no taxes and look like Daddy Big Heart. I pay out the money but it doesn’t buy fighter planes and war ships. I get to direct it to people that I think need it.
I’ll also add that anyone that isn’t part of the 1% who thinks the Romney/Ryan tax policy benefits them is utterly stupid.
I’m not part of the 1%, and the R/R tax plan would benefit me. That’s a fact, Mr. McMurphy.
I can’t say that, were I in Romney’s shoes, and I had the ability to open one of those charitably remainder unitrusts, that I wouldn’t have done so. I’m not sure how this is any different from deduction interest on your mortgage. I think it’s utterly ridiculous that the government allows us to do that, and yet there it is.
The plan can’t benefit you in the long run. It’s snake oil. You can’t cut tax rates by 20%, be revenue neutral, and reduce the deficit while substantially increasing military spending. Explain how that works. To make it work you have to get gouged somewhere. Romney is apoplectic that so many people don’t pay income tax. So cutting income taxes by 20% and remaining revenue neutral can only mean shifting the burden to the less well off. That translates to the middle class because you can’t squeeze money out of those that don’t have any. TELL ME HOW THE NUMBERS WORK. Don’t give me the crap about “growing” our way out of it. That’s just empty promises.
Romney is the ultimate politician. He promises something for nothing and it is flabbergasting that after all the shit that has come down people continue to listen.
I win either way. Everyone else gets fucked by Romney/Ryan.
I agree with everything you posted except the first and last sentence. If R/R can benefit you in the long run, it can benefit me, too. Or, rather, if the plan can’t benefit me in the long run, it can’t benefit you in the long run, either.
Now, I’m in a rather unusual position in that most of my income is derived from investments, most of which will be even more favored by R/R than they are now, but I’m still not a 1%er. You may not have meant what you said to be literally true, but since you had to call anyone who didn’t agree with you “utterly stupid”, I feel compelled to call you on it.
Maybe I should say that anyone who believes that the plan will do what they say it will is pretty stupid. How do the numbers work? They won’t and can’t even begin to explain it. All we hear is “I know how to do it”. In the debates, when asked the direct question of what deduction would be cut I don’t think Mittens mentioned a single one. Shouldn’t that be tip-off that they guy is slinging bullshit. Reagan cut taxes and gave us massive deficits. GWB cut taxes and gave us massive deficits while nearly ruining the financial system. It seems pretty stupid to me to go down that road again.
This phony claims to have some magic wand. Something for nothing ain’t nothing.
I don’t have a mortgage so if that deduction goes a lot of people get fucked but not me. My charitable money is already in a foundation and I’ve already gotten the tax deduction so I won’t be hurt they if that goes away. State and local tax deduction? Yes, that affects me but is more than offset by the 20% cut. What other deductions are they going to get rid off that will make any difference? Where is the additional money for the military going to come from?
Zebra: I’m guessing that it would hurt a lot of charities if they hadn’t grandfathered it in. And since most of the people engaging in that sort of thing are probably rich and well connected, they can better lobby for stuff like that. And, most of us don’t even know about it. I had never heard of such a thing before this thread.
The notion of grandfathering started as a mechanism for screwing over black people. During Segregation, southern lawmakers imposed all sorts of hurdles to voting (kind of like the Republicans are doing now, in fact if those southern lawmakers were alive today, you would call them Republicans). Literacy tests were among the most common. But it turned out a lot of white folks were also illiterate so they made a special rule. If your grandfather could vote then so could you.
Tax bureaucrats frequently grandfather in current lawbreakers when they identify some abuse that might be technically permissible because they just don’t have the resources to fight all those battles and some deluded notion that it would be unfair to “change the rules” on someone who was abusing the system.
One very common form of charitable contribution is to donate appreciated property. You get the deduction for the market value of the property but you never paid the taxes on the gain on that appreciated property.