No, you said hundreds of thousands, implying at least 200,000. You really have a hard time keeping things straight; this, Arab/Muslim, decades before 2001 with years after 2003, did OBL claim responsibility for 9/11 or didn’t he, which thread you’re posting to.
And the difference between ally and proxy state.
And now you show that you don’t know the difference between a dirty bomb and depleted uranium munitions. Kudos for your ‘proof’ that the US dropped dirty bombs on Vietnam -“its very hard to believe that they weren’t”. Actually no, it’s very hard to believe that they did. I’d actually say impossible to believe without some evidence, of which you have produced none.
I see your understanding of the history of warfare is on par with the rest of your knowledge of history. No innocent civilians were killed? I guess Tacitus was wrong when he said of Carthage that Rome made a desert and called it peace, Timur didn’t sack Delhi, Japan didn’t create a mound of ears from slain Koreans in 1597, the Thirty Years War didn’t kill 1/3 of the population of the Germanic States… damn, history books are going to need an awful lot of rewriting.
I can think of one. The US didn’t kill hundreds of thousands of innocent Arab civilians in the decades before 9/11.
Yes, he’s not inventing these figures. He repeatedly claims he’s using the low-end ones. It’s not complete bs that he’s writing, he has a reputation to maintain. He has published the figures, his “back of the envelope math” was referring to his arithmetic and possibly his remembering of established figures (which he either double-checked or knows without a doubt). I am sure FinnAgain that these figures can be derived from authorative sources (whatever that means).
That’s not true, though your point isn’t complete nonsense because in truth he doesn’t say without any doubt that there were over 100,000 deaths in those 12 years. The “at least” 100,000 deaths of Iraqi civilians range from 1992 stretched all the way to 2002. The Iraqi war didn’t begin until 2003 and is accounted for elsewhere.
I think we can safely say that whatever way you look at it, during the whole of the 20th century, over 100,000 Arab civilians were killed by the US, which was all I claimed to begin with.
So if Russia were to claim tomorrow that it’s Iran’s number 1 ally and will stand by it, that wouldn’t cause any international relation implications between them and the US? Okay buddy…
The US ships arms and resources not only to Israel but to all their key strategic points in the Middle East. They also interfere hugely with trade, nobody wants the US to be against them. The US is like a world economic bully.
I give up. I present you with experts in the field telling you straight out what this stuff does and you ignore it. I show you pictures of children so mutilated and so grotesquely deformed that they are extremely hard to look at and you show no emotion.
The type of studies you’re asking for are there, you can find them on places such as pubmed. I never claimed to be an expert in all this who could cite studies verbatum… should I be?
Over the years, huge flaws have been found in epidemiological studies. See The China Study for an example of how it can all go wrong. I think it’s extremely sad and people are going down a very bad path if everything has to be done using a 20 year epidemiological study of people who’ve inhaled Agent Orange… when you see the damage it has done.
Epidemiological studies can never prove causation… it cannot prove that a specific risk factor actually causes the disease being studied. I suppose you’ll need a source for this also, here you go:
True science has been twisted and distorted by some people who are trying to push their viewpoints, in such a way so that no evidence will be enough. Science that tests things can be a wonderful thing if done properly, but I think it’s pretty rotten to demand “proof” that it was the smoking gun that the trigger was just pulled in that killed someone. It’s like you’re trying to twist the great idea of epidemiological study into something you must have or you will deny anything.
Whenever they say “there is no evidence” that something can cause you to get cancer and die then you know they’re (almost certainly) full of shit because there is also no evidence or no reason to think that this thing WON’T cause you to get cancer and die.
Aha… what thread I’m posting in, okay good one. But I have for a long time insisted on saying Arab rather than Muslim, and Israelite rather than Jew. I just don’t see the need to bring religion into it. If you were talking about an American you wouldn’t call him/her Christian or Catholic, etc. I have no “dissonance” at all between decades before 2001 with years after 2003 or did OBL claim responsibility or not.
Is there some special formal definition I’m not aware of?
The dirty bomb and depleted uranium are both radioactive and can be extremely dangerous, they can hang around for a really long time and cause incredible deformaties, irreversible and inheritable genetic damage etc.
I did not say that no innocent civilians were killed throughout history, I said that when a human fights man-to-man with another… that’s a fair and manly duel. And then I expanded this into saying that when you go in a fighter plane… that is at least some way manly. You’re putting your own life at risk for a cause. At least people can be pretty sure that you really believe in your cause, or you wouldn’t do it. When you are a fighter pilot, you have some sense of respect for your enemy and empathy for him. You may kill him, but you may shed tears for him. These guys sitting at home with their glorified playstations, are not manly. They are despicable. You know this is what I meant.
Also I don’t come from the US, and yet I know a lot more than most people in the US about what their country is doing abroad. I’m sure many people in the US don’t even know they are spreading dirty bombs and the damage they did with Agent Orange at all. People talk about having “fought in 'nam” like it was a badge of honour. How deranged and deluded can you get? Vietnam was a joke, it was a case of the US trying to bully a little nation and thinking its powerful european buddies would play along in the bullying and massacre and they did not. In the end the US finally lost, then rewrote history to make it not sound so bad.
I am fast realizing that this is worse than worthless, so this will probably be my last response in this vein:
Yes, it is, and the only way it even approaches 100,000, which is still not the ‘hundreds of thousands’ that you claimed, is to claim that UNSCR 661, which was not vetoed by any of the members of the Security Council, should fall at America’s feet in terms of resentment generated.
I’m not sure if you realize that you’ve shifted the goalposts from a discussion of proxy states to the geopolitical impact of national alliances, but either whether you realize that fact or not it shows that your argument will not bear fruit along this branch, either.
No, you didn’t.
I, on the other hand, provided a citation from the World Health Organization demonstrating that there are virtually no serious health risks associated with the use of DU as a weapon and that it does not, in fact, generally cause cancer in anything resembling real-world battlefield conditions.
You claim to know that Arab =/= Muslim, yet here you say they are interchangeable, and that Israelite is the same as Jew. Oh, and there is no cognitive dissonance between say that OBL didn’t claim responsibility and then saying he did, or trying to use post 2003 events as the causation of a 2001 event.
Yes, you should consult a dictionary.
And this proves that the US dirty bombed Vietnam how? Or that a dirty bomb is the same thing as DU?
Indeed I know what you meant. That you have no comprehension of military history at all, you did indeed say innocent civilians weren’t killed. Fair and manly duels?:rolleyes:
Repetition doesn’t make it true. You’ve not managed to produce any evidence to support this because it didn’t happen.
Something I should have realized myself a while ago.
I am not an expert, but I am going to guess that both more innocent Arabs and more innocent Muslims have been killed by, respectively, other Arabs and other Muslims, in the past fifty years, than have been killed by America.