Roy Keane: assault or over enthusiasm?

Great Debates
1

For reference, check here . Roy Keane, an Irish footballer known for being:

  1. Short tempered
  2. Brilliant (at football)
  3. Violent
  4. Ireland’s best ever player
  5. An all round nasty piece of work
  6. Arguably Manchester United’s best current player,

has admitted to a premeditated foul tackle on Alf-Inge Haaland of Man City. The picture in the link isn’t very good. I’ve seen the TV replays and trust me, it’s horrific. A running stamp, studs out, on the outside of Haaland’s right knee after the ball had long gone.

I think he should be prosecuted for assault. This wasn’t a spur of the moment reaction ot an over-enthusiastic tackle, this was a premeditated attack on another person. That it happened on the football pitch is incidental. That Haaland’s playing career may or may not have been affected is also incidental.

IMHO Kane should be kicked (pun intended) out of the game for good. He’s rich enough to avoid starvation and the workhouse. Just get the dirty bastard out of the game.
:mad:

2

Assault. No question. Premeditated. Admitted. Video evidence. Significant damage to the poor player he knobbled, who’s only been able to play for 48 minutes since the “incident”.

I agree - prosecute the bastard.

3

Agreed - now that he no longer plays for Ireland and therefore the damage would be limited to Man Utd!

All national and club bias aside, the tackle was horrific and the dogs on the street knew it was pre-meditated and motivated by vengeance. Now that he has admitted it, he should be punished. But in reality there’s no question of him being dismissed from the game altogether. He may be fined or suspended by the FA or on the wrong end of a court award if Haaland takes a case but he certainly won’t be kicked out of football.

In general, the issue of assault in sport is a thorny one. There have been successful civil cases take by players of Gaelic games in Ireland (the Offaly hurler Johnny Flaherty is one that springs to mind) but it can be difficult to prove. The Keane/Haaland one looks pretty clear-cut though.

4

Is there a case for a criminal prosecution, I wonder.

5

One can but hope.

6

As a principle, I agree. It is, I believe, by legal definition, assault. With or without Keane’s admission, his intent in that “tackle” was as clear as that of someone who throws a punch in a nightclub while dancing and tries to shrug it off as part of their arsenal of dope moves.

Now, I am usually the kind of person who believes that, in general, things that begin on the field should be settled and left on the field. However, in this case and in many other cases (most famously that of Marty McSorley, the NHL player convicted of assault), I can see that sportsmen are still citizens of the community, bound by the same laws as anyone else. No immunity from the law should arise from being in the context of engagment in a sporting activity.

The problem, of course, is that the line is very difficult to draw. If I am walking down the street and some guy comes and crash tackles me into the neighbour’s rose bushes, that would be easily construed as assault. A similar act in a rugby, league, of american football game might seem acceptable. If it is an issue of intent then that still doesn’t make things clear cut because, in any game of a contact sport, almost everyone is trying to inflict injury on their opponents. Not everyone will write it in their autobiography or even admit it openly but it is certainly true.

Keane’s “challenge” on Haaland was obviously meant to inflict pain and/or injury and had little merit in terms of attempting to play the ball but it is not unique in that respect. In fact, I would wager that such challenges are a common occurence in the game. I suppose the difference, in this case, is that Keane has openly admitted it and Haaland has been seriously injured because of it. The admission should be evidence of intent but, as I said before, even without it, the intent seemed pretty clear. The extent of injury (short of death) shouldn’t really matter if we are talking about criminal procedings for assault (any lawyers are welcome to shout me down) but would be used to assess damages in a civil tort.

The thing about all this is that, theoretically, any number of acts, in any number of sports could be construed as assault or be the subject of civil litigation. If Keane was brought up on charges, it could open up the floodgates. Which isn’t something the sport or many of its fans would want.

Personally, I don’t think any of that really matters. The line has to be drawn somewhere and things like this, for me, are clearly beyond it. Put him in a cell with McSorley, Ulf Samuelsson, Conrad Dobler, Steve Wisniewski, Bill Romanowski, Vinnie Jones and Dennis Wise and let them sort it out there.

7

But the rules of the game do not supercede the laws of the land. IIRC there was a succesful conviction in the UK for an assault during a rugby game (no cite). What he did was in contravention of the rules and the law.

8

If I had done that outside Old Trafford in my wilder days I would’ve expected to be arrested and probably jailed.

Why is it different on the pitch? It is certainly every bit as bad as the Cantona attack and the Duncan Ferguson attack.

But RK is a Man Yoo player and as such different rules apply.

They are as bad as Leeds.

2 weeks wages is £160,000 for him. A fortune to me; a bagatelle to him

9

As I mentioned before, an NHL player, Marty McSorley was successfully convicted of assault in Canada for hitting opponent, Donald Brashear in the head with his stick and giving him a concussion.

The thing is, it shouldn’t matter whether or not what Keane did was in contravention of the rules of football because, as we have both agreed, the laws of the land come first.

10

OK…I have to get in on this.

Whatever your views of the man, many of them are Media Inspired Myths. I wonder how many of the people who agree with the notion that Keane is a “nasty piece of work” have actually met the man, this myth is perpetuated my a mainly Anti-Manchester United Media, he is their captain, and is outspoken on many issues.

This latest episode regarding the challenge on Haaland was dealt with at the time. Keane received a four game ban (the usual for the type of offence is a three game ban). This incident happened 18 months ago, and has more of a history to it than simply a rash challenge.

What Keane did was wrong, but no worse than numerous tackles made in spite in the Premiership, I’ve seen examples by Owen ,Gerrard, Vieira, Wise, Savage, Batty, Ruddock, Ian Wright and Le Saux that I can remember, as well as the time Alan Shearer kicked Lennon in the head (for which he received no punishment at all).

Now, Haaland played four days later for Norway in an international match, and showed no signs of injury.

The History to the challenge in question goes back to Haaland’s days with Leeds United, in particular a game against Manchester United during which Haaland kicked and fouled Keane to the point of distraction, Keane had had enough, and in a bid to exact revenge during the game, tried to tackle Haaland, and got his studs caught in the turf and destroyed his knee. While keane was lying in pain Haaland stood over him with a teammate and jeered him for “faking” injury.

Later, Haaland posed for photographs in front of some graffiti which made fun of Munich’58.

Johnny B GoodeQuote"…is that Keane has openly admitted it and Haaland has been seriously injured because of it…"

Haaland has not started a game since this tackle by Keane, however, his injury is to the other knee, not the one that Keane lunged at. His current injury HAS NOTHING TO DO with Keane’s challenge. Its his left knee that caused him to miss so long. Keane hit his right knee. It has been that it might have been the force of the tackle that injured his left knee. However, if you look at the incident, his left knee was already tightly strapped and bandaged. Haaland openly admitted that the incident had nothing to do with the injury to his left knee, which was operated on only days before the match.

Haaland has simply jumped on an Anti-Keane Media Bandwagon, in a bid to revive his career, and if anyone is a “nasty piece of work” it is Haaland

It was obvious to anyone there that day that Keane had no intention of getting the ball, now he’s admitted to it, the Anti Manchester United press jump on a new bandwagon to get him punished once again for it.

11

:mad:
OK…I have to get in on this.

Whatever your views of the man, many of them are Media Inspired Myths. I wonder how many of the people who agree with the notion that Keane is a “nasty piece of work” have actually met the man, this myth is perpetuated my a mainly Anti-Manchester United Media, he is their captain, and is outspoken on many issues.

This latest episode regarding the challenge on Haaland was dealt with at the time. Keane received a four game ban (the usual for the type of offence is a three game ban). This incident happened 18 months ago, and has more of a history to it than simply a rash challenge.

What Keane did was wrong, but no worse than numerous tackles made in spite in the Premiership, I’ve seen examples by Owen ,Gerrard, Vieira, Wise, Savage, Batty, Ruddock, Ian Wright and Le Saux that I can remember, as well as the time Alan Shearer kicked Lennon in the head (for which he received no punishment at all).

Now, Haaland played four days later for Norway in an international match, and showed no signs of injury.

The History to the challenge in question goes back to Haaland’s days with Leeds United, in particular a game against Manchester United during which Haaland kicked and fouled Keane to the point of distraction, Keane had had enough, and in a bid to exact revenge during the game, tried to tackle Haaland, and got his studs caught in the turf and destroyed his knee. While keane was lying in pain Haaland stood over him with a teammate and jeered him for “faking” injury.

Later, Haaland posed for photographs in front of some graffiti which made fun of Munich’58.

Johnny B Goode Quote"…is that Keane has openly admitted it and Haaland has been seriously injured because of it…"

Haaland has not started a game since this tackle by Keane, however, his injury is to the other knee, not the one that Keane lunged at. His current injury HAS NOTHING TO DO with Keane’s challenge. Its his left knee that caused him to miss so long. Keane hit his right knee. It has been said that it might have been the force of the tackle that injured his left knee. However, if you look at the incident, his left knee was already tightly strapped and bandaged. Haaland openly admitted that the incident had nothing to do with the injury to his left knee, which was operated on only days before the match.

Haaland has simply jumped on an Anti-Keane Media Bandwagon, in a bid to revive his career, and if anyone is a “nasty piece of work” it is Haaland

It was obvious to anyone there that day that Keane had no intention of getting the ball, now he’s admitted to it, the Anti Manchester United press jump on a new bandwagon to get him punished once again for it.

12

Throughout his career, Keane has been a dirty player, even when playing for Forest. Compare and contrast his behaviour with Beckham, someone who got his temper under control and is the better player and better man for it.

Keane is regularly sent off every season. For foul play, for leading verbal assaults on referees (the famous incident in the season before last) and for dissent. The behaviour of the players mentioned and the fact that they got away with it doesn’t condone Keane’s behaviour. In fact, if penalties on them had been stiffer, there’d be less foul play all round. As long as these players get away with it (a four match ban is getting away with it, see owlstretchingtime’s comment), assaults like Keane’s will continue.

Until Ferguson stops defending Keane (and Wenger defending Arsenal’s record, etc., etc.) there will be no improvement in behaviour that’s destroying football. A charge of common assault against one of the highest profile players in the world would have a salutory effect on the behaviour of all the rest. It’s not anti-Man U propaganda, it’s belated recognition that something has to be done.

The FA will do little or nothing, for starters it doesn’t have the power and in the long run it dare not act against the interests of the most influential clubs.

13

For the love of all that is holy you cannot be serious!!!

Anti MUFC media?

Ferguson has got them so well trained that they cover up his drinking and gambling (common knowledge in the game).

They cover up the realtionship between Alex and Duncan ferguson who negotiates contracts with the club, for a healthy commission.

They cover up a certain footballer having just knocked up his 16 year old babysitter (he didn’t stick it up her b*llocks)

They cover up the “unconventional lifestyle” of a midfielder (actually this isn’t such a bad thing)

The story about knighton has never been fully told.

The story about the coolmoore mafia is skirted around

The truth about both Kanchelskis signings is ignored

Not to mention the Beckham love in

Also the fact that Fergie taps up any player that takes his eye blatantly ( I know for a fact - from the horses mouth - that he did this to one current spurs player and to one ex spurs player who’s name I have erased from my memory).

Anti MUFC media - you are having a bubble

(and as to sources for the above I work, voluntarily, in and around football for a government funded body, and as such have a lot of contact with “insiders”)

14

This being GD, I would like to ask you for a cite to prove all these allegations but in lieu of that, could you just spill the goss’? I am curious to know.

15

OK then. Not cites as such in all cases but here we go:

Fergie liking a dram. Firstly look at him. Secondly ask him why he gave up running a pub (called the Elbow Room). Thirdly ask anyone who has regular dealings with him, all of whom know not to bother after 6 in the evening. THis has also been a major source of friction between AF and the board of MUFC

Horses: He owns horses (an absolute cracker included - Rock of Gibraltar which will make him more money than footballl has).

Lee Sharpe has gone on record as saying that he, and the other young players, were forever being asked to run to the bookies for him.

Alex and Jason (not Duncan - D’oh) Ferguson: Jason is Alex’s agent and is also the agent for several MUFC players. It is also well known that if you want to get to MUFC it helps to be represented by these agents (Like Eric Hall with Venables hence his interest in Barmby and Anderton.) I will let you draw your own conclusions as to what this may mean. For independent cite read M Cricks biography.

The babysitter is negotiating with the red tops. Watch this space. You must also have heard the rumours that him coming back from the world cup was to do with his private life rather than footballing reasons.

Gay Midfielder: I’m not outing him. That’s up to him.

Knighton/Kanchelskis/Coolmore: Not a chance sonny. I like my knees.

Tapping up: Campbell Carr and Sheringham have all told me personally that he did this to him. Sullivan was tapped but through Jason.

Hope that helps. There’s loads more.

owl (ABU + ABA)

16

Looks Keane & Ferguson is a mathc made in Heaven, or some other place beginning with H…

17

There has been a successful prosecution for negligence against a Huddersfield player:

http://www.le.ac.uk/crss/sf-review/98-99/98article5.html

18

** owlstretchingtime**

Quotes

“Fergie liking a dram. Firstly look at him…ask anyone who has regular dealings with him”

"You must also have heard the rumours that him coming back from the world cup was to do with his private life rather than footballing reasons. "

End Quotes

Excuse me, but since when did Rumor and Hearsay count and verifiable cites?

This thread is about the Roy Keane débacle, not an Anti-Manchester United one, as you have turned it into.

Seems to me you are one of the many jealous and bitter fans of another less successful football club, who cannot accept the fact that Manchester United have been the most successful club in the Premier League, and therefore try by any means to demean the good name of Manchester United at any chance you get.

EVERY club has its skeletons, and every club would like these skeletons kept under wraps.

19

Oh good grief.

20

That who turned it into…?