RPG group dynamics

For three years, my husband ran an Amber game. For most of that time, we had a Core Group of four players (myself included). Toward the end of that game, we aquired another player, B----.

My husband brought the Amber game to an end. He was tired of running it, and he had an idea for another Amber campaign. It would require a lot of planning, so he decided to take a break from running Amber for a few months to a year to develop the new campaign. So for a year, we played several different games. Another player, T—, joined because he wanted some D&D action, but he has continued to play other games with us as well.

B— and T— have never shown the same commitment to the game(s) as the Core Group. We CGers sometimes, when circumstances are dire and there’s no way to get out of the other obligation, miss a session. B— and T— are absent much more frequently, and often show up late and leave early, sometimes with and sometimes without prior warning. This is after we moved the game to a time that’s slightly less convenient for everyone else in order to accomodate B—'s schedule. They’re also students, and past experience is that they will not be reliable at all once the fall semester begins. I’m not saying they’re bad people because of this, just illustrating that their level of commitment is not on par with the CG’s.

Now, a year after the end of the first campaign, my husband has begun running Amber again. B— and T— are agitating that we continue playing other games on and off. They say they don’t like the Amber game too much primarily because it’s not a party game. One member of the core group says he’d be happy to continue playing other games. Two are ambivalent/apathetic. I am violently opposed.

The CG began as an Amber group, and we all enjoy that style of gaming enough that we played a campaign for three years. I don’t see why we should feel the obligation to provide a different type of game to the Johnny-come-latelies who have never shown the same level of commitment as the CG.

I think my husband should say, “I’m running my Amber game every Sunday afternoon. Anyone who wants to play is welcome. Anyone who wants to run something else is welcome to, but find your own time and your own space. If it doesn’t conflict with Amber, and our schedules, we might come play.” You know, kinda free-market. Vote with your feet.

If B— and T— choose not to play, then we still have a decent-sized group. If the CG guy who also like the idea of switching games decides he doesn’t like the situation, and he goes too, we can probably find another person who’s interested in joining the group. We’ll still see these guys in other contexts (hopefully when their run their own games!) so I don’t feel like this should necessarily destroy any friendships.

My husband is ambivalent. He says he likes goofing around with other game systems, and worries about offending B— and T—, but he also misses the good old days of intensive Amber gaming with a small group of committed players. Plus, as is only natural, he wants to give me what I want. ; )

Is my suggestion too draconian? Am I just spoiled brat? I wouldn’t be so insistent except that I’m sooooo sick of the short-term party-oriented games we’ve been playing for the last year, and I soooo want a good Amber game. It has come to the point where, if it weren’t for my husband, I’d leave the group and seek satisfaction elsewhere.

There are seven days in the week. Designating one day the Amber day makes perfect sense. I’ve been in all varieties of gaming groups, and there were two types that worked: committed, long-term campaigns with a single GM running a single game system, or limited-arc (2-3 nights) modules with all the players taking turns running (usually either Fantasy Hero or Champions; D&D doesn’t lend itself well to swapping GM’s).

The second one works well for Champions, as each GM can pick a different city to base his campaign in, and everybody’s campaign plays off of what happens in the other cities.

Anyway. It’s your house, your time, your group, your (husband’s) campaign. Decide when to run it and go with the players you get. Life’s too short to torque your gaming group to accommodate people who aren’t with the program.

I’d have to say it would depend on how much the game continuing depended on B and T. For most games there is a “critical mass” that makes the game less fun if you’re over or under that. My experences with Amber (granted, not extensive) lead me to believe it works best with small groups (say, 3 or less.) If your husband really could continue to run without these two and it wouldn’t affect anything, then I’d say for him to do what works best for him. If they can’t be bothered to show up on time (or at all) and play for the full time, their positions for “demanding” any change in the game (be it what you play or when you play it) are pretty weak.

When I GM I pretty much try to make sure that all the players can make it. If it comes down to being missing a player or two or not running for long periods of time, then I generally go ahead and run without them. However, it’s also not unusual for me to go more than a month between runs, just due to the difficulty of getting everybody to attend.

I think part of the reason that B and T might not show as much committment to the Amber game is that it might not be their preferred type of game. I pretty much tell my new players: “This is what I’m running. You should not expect me to run anything else. If you’re interested, let me know.” Fortunately I’ve had a pretty stable group, so I only need to bring in new players every now and then. The campaign is going on seven years now, with no end in sight. I’ve had players drop due to lack of interest, and I have no problem with that. If everybody left, I guess I’d try something different.

Unfortunately the GM is also your husband, which can cause other problems if you don’t like the direction that the game is going. I think before you do anything you should sound him out and get his feelings on the issue (which is probably an obvious statement, if so, pardon me.)

The other option is that you could get your husband to switch to RIFTS for a few weeks, kill B and T’s characters repeatedly, and then see how hot they are on having him run anything else… :slight_smile:

Ahh, the lovely group dynamics of a good role-playing group. (and for those of you who think computer games qualify, I’m gonna beat you to death with a bag of dice, then stab you with a pencil! :slight_smile: )

I’ve been Rpging for close to 2 decades-- way more than half my life. All through elem. school, high school, cegep, university, and dealing with highly variable work schedules.

My current group includes me (working nights for 2 years and counting), 2 people stranded by shift hour changes due to a transit strike, a stunt man (who works literally at random), a pair 9 to 5 schmucks, and the unemployed guy.

Some are Core, some are free-floaters. We’re all friends.

Podkayne dear, there is one, and only one acceptable solution. You must declare a regular, weekly (or bi-weekly) session, dedicated to one particular campaign.

The players must then commit to attending this session with the fervor of those who paid for box seats-- and don’t get to use it as a tax-write-off.

Nothing else works. nothing. nothing. nothing.

What I suggest you do is set a day and time, and have a shakedown period. Since you foresee the fall as a bad tme for your studious types, I suggest this shakedown last 3 months. You’ll be much happier in the long term if you keep jonesing for Amber until October, in order to get rid of the Rpging chaff.

Good luck!

I should probably clarify that we play in a public area. It’s more centrally-located, and playing there means I don’t have to straighten up every week. ; )

Thanks everyone for your advice.

I guess my biggest concern with the “We’re playing Amber now, dammit!” gambit is that people will say, “Well, I don’t have enough time to be in two games per week, and I feel like I’m being forced out of this group.” B— and T—, despite their poor taste in games :slight_smile: are nice guys, and good role-players. If playing Amber exclusively means that they’re going to be mad at us and feel like we didn’t take their opinions into consideration, then I’d rather cave than lose them as friends.

Cripes, I want to be a cold-hearted Machiavellian bitch, but I’m just not as ruthless as my Amber characters. ; )

But if you were, you wouldn’t need to play games with a bunch of patsies. :wink:

I’ve had similar problems with group members dropping out, being late, and, most recently, getting arrested… so yeah, I’m familiar with the disfunctional role-playing group dynamic. Here are my recommendations.

Being late is acceptable; being really late is acceptable, with some notice. Being absent without notice is acceptable once; after that it’s going to take some begging to get back into the game. Face it, when you just fail to show up for a game, you’ve got four other people sitting over at my house, just waiting for you. Eventually we find something else to do, but you just wasted four whole days that we could have planned to do something else in. So, if you’re not going to be there this week, call. Preferably a couple of days in advance.

As to your stance on which systems to play… ask your GM. Really ask him if he minds doing something else, say, one week a month. I don’t know about his personal style, but I am always grateful for a player who GMs something different every so often. In my group, it’s kind of understood that the D&D game is sort of the central attraction, but there are other games we play, and one of the players just started a kickass Feng Shuei game, and that’s part of the dynamic too. So, the questions are, does the GM mind having a break in continuity every so often? Is someone willing to run these games? Will it keep the group happy?

Because, you know, this is all for fun. Making some sacrifices in order to keep a group of friends happy is pretty much par for the course; don’t get hung up on a game system to the detriment of your friendships. I’m sure you can work something out.

He says he wouldn’t mind. People are happy to GM games. We have an on-going, on-and-off Cthulu Delta Green campaign going, plus the above-mentioned D&D game. And it’ll make some of us happy.

I’ve had enough breaks in continuity in the last year to last me a lifetime. I hate sitting down and saying, wait, who am I playing this week? And what the hell happened in the last gaming session, which was over a month ago? And why the hell do I care?

Some people don’t mind. What’s trying to kill us this week, bugbears or shoggoths? Doesn’t matter, it’s all good! Whee! Roll dice! Kill stuff!

I’m looking for just a smidgin more out of my gaming experience, however.

I haven’t role-played in years, mostly because it is so hard to find a group that enjoys playing with one another enough to show up to every scheduled game. So, I first want to tell you that I’m jealous of you, and that you have a wonderful thing there. I’d kill to get an actual, year(s)-long campaign going.

Would B and T accept a short time without their ‘party’ games? Maybe you could suggest 2 months of Amber-only to re-establish the campaign on a strong footing, and then revisit the possibility of an occasional ‘filler’ game.

Anyway, I guess my main point is that you should value the campaign, since successful groups like yours can be hard to set up. So do whatever’s necessary to keep it.

Hi. I did a quick search on Yahoo, but couldn’t come up with anything. Is there a good site to learn a bit about Amber? I’d like to read up on it.

I’m sure there are plenty of good places I don’t know about, but a good place to start is About.com’s Amber roleplaying page. While you’re there you can get info on most other reasonably popular games. The home page only lists a few though – you’ll have to do some digging.

The official name of the game is The Amber Diceless Role Playing Game, or the Amber DRPG, published by Phage Press. That might help if you want to try websearching again.

Here’s a nice review.

MaBarry’s Amber Links: definitive, exhaustive, but possibly not much help to the beginner.

The Golden Circle: the Amber web ring.

The best introduction is to read the books, of course, starting with Nine Princes in Amber by Rodger Zelzany.

Or you could ask Arden Ranger.

That’s one helluva typo for “they’re being astonishingly immature.” But sometimes fingers just get onto the wrong keys.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Podkayne *
**

Then, m’dear, you must go all the way.

First you have the gaming session in your house one night. It may mean straightening up, but hey, every plot involves a sacrifice.

You find out what their drink of choice is (they’re D&D gamers, so it’s probably Mountain Dew or Jolt cola :D) but make it a very special can. Bwah-hahahahha<cough>.

You’ll need to walk Shadow 'till you find a Jolt Cola that uses a caffine-like product that turns to a sedative in our dimension. (Like a certain pink jeweler’s rouge changed…)

Anyway, once they’re out, take 'em to your basement, and blind them (so they can’t walk Shadow or contact the Logrus themselves.) Don’t make Eric’s mistake…reblind 'em every year. Meanwhile have the two shadows of them (the ones you found in the dimension where EVERYONE plays Amber) take over the “original’s” lives.

See? It’s all so simple.

Failing that, I say compromise. Three Ambers to one D&D or something.

Fenris

:smiley:

Amber goddess that I am.

And a pox on you! Having the good fortune to have someone run a three year Amber campaign, FtF and with a consistant CG! Years! It’s been years!

I would hate you, but I don’t want to cut into the pool of Amber players. :wink:

I’ve been exactly where you are. Balance has the best advice. “Tonight’s Amber, damn it.” Had to do it more than once myself. Worse, the people giving me grief weren’t even good roleplayers and you have to be to play Amber. No dice to depend on (for those that don’t know). I conned someone else into running things on a different night. We had the CG who played Amber and then the two Dice Rolling Gods (who sucked as role players) who only joined in on Werewolf night. But since they were using my living room, I made them buy pizza.

Well, if they can’t be bothered to show up even when you’re playing what they want to play, and don’t want to play what everyone else wants to play, I think suggesting they start their own game of what they want to play is a good idea.

Hey, if the keep bitching, just stick a d4 on their chair when they go to the can…that’ll learn 'em!

I’ve been roleplaying continuously (D+D 1st edition) for over 22 years. (Two players have stuck with me that long.)

Currently there is a core group of 5 players, who all take it in turn to DM. 3 are based in Forgotten Realms, 1 in Dragonlance and 1 in Al-Qadim. It is tricky remembering 5 sets of characters (we have 2 characters in each campaign in case only 3 players can make it), but regular gaming helps.

There are about 5 other players who are either are busy or don’t like to DM. They play occasionally.

Because we are all DMs, we made up a booklet of rule additions to ensure compatibility.

I think the group has lasted so long because:

  • it’s a great game!
  • we are a polite bunch
  • we share the workload and problems of DMing
  • we have a couple of good organisers

I hope this helps.

Wow, that’s harsh, Tengu. A tack is one thing, but a d4? You know how much damage that could do?

About four points.

Ow.

They make great caltrops, too.

Q: I lost my d4! Where will I find it?
A: Stuck to the bottom of your bare foot.

Thanks again, all. That one iffy CGer just called to say he won’t make it tomorrow. Sigh. Time to trump Julian, and ask him to start heatin’ up the irons.

Oh, and Munch, I forgot to say, shoot me an email if you have any Amber questions. podkayne_fries@hotmail.com

How long do you play at a go?

My ‘home’ group in PA will play for 12 hours or so. We do about 3-4 hours in one system and then move onto another. We keep several chars around, but we’re playing most if not all of them every week. Its a good system if you have the time.

However, if you don’t, (and the crew I’m playing with now doesn’t) its hard to swap between systems.

If you could manage to play a few hours of Amber and then an hour or so of D&D every week you might be able to make everyone happy.

But this ignores tardyness issues. I don’t know what I can say to help there, I’m not a big fan of being late.