You said it. I was pulling my hair out at some of the awful tactical decisions, and some of the even worse execution in the backline.
It was one of the most impressive defensive efforts i’ve ever seen in a game of rugby, but all that tackling was made necessary by a complete inability to do anything positive when they had the ball, especially in the second half.
Excellent analysis again, Cumbrian - I agree that England improved, but unfortunately France pulled that performance we had feared out of the bag at the right time. I’m now hoping Wales will win the thing - yes, the Welsh will then be irritating as hell for the next 4 years (and more) but that’s the case anyway and I would prefer that to either France or Australia winning. And it would be just too funny to see New Zealand fail again.
For long periods of the final quarter-final it looked as though NZ were going to go through having scored fewer tries in their match than England managed in going out to France, which would have been entertaining - no doubt some of that was due to Argentina slowing the ball down and conceding penalties, though.
I had a huge amount of sympathy for Colin Slade this weekend. He looked so incredibly nervous - every close up of him made it look like he was going to break into tears. It didn’t go well for him. Cruden did alright when he came on I thought.
I think Wales can definitely win this thing - but only if Oz beat NZ. I just can’t see Wales beating the All Blacks, Carter or no. But Wales have the team to beat Australia I think. Anyway, this is all a bit previous - they’ve got to get passed France first. I make them favourites - their form is better and their defence looks rock solid. I have been very impressed with Priestland at 10 for Wales - looks like he’s been playing international rugby for years rather than 3 months. Probably the next Lions fly half I would say.
Cumbrian, do you not perhaps see Wales as having the game to potentially beat NZ as well?
A big ask I know but as much as any other team in the tournament they have shown resilient defence and sparkling play from the backs. Could well spell trouble for anyone they face in the final.
(note the unspoken assumption that they will spank the French)
The rule of World Cups is that France always follow a great performance with an awful one. I don’t think their last game was a great performance - good enough, but England could have won simply by keeping their shape and not giving the ball away so much - but Wales should be favourites for the semi. Arguably they put on the best performance of the weekend.
I can see Wales or Australia maybe beating NZ if NZ don’t step it up. For the first half against Argentina, the choke of all chokes looked a real possibility and they only came good when the Pumas ran out of puff in the last 20. Australia will keep tackling for 80 minutes, they won’t give away so many penalties and their back line can hardly play as badly again. On the other hand, I also can’t see Australia scoring more that about 20, so two tries should do it for the All Blacks.
I agree completely, I felt sorry for Slade, a player who I’ve often criticised, for this reason. He looked like a fourth former called up to play in the First XV. Cruden looked much more at home (despite being two years younger than Slade).
As predicted, Slade’s now injured and out of the squad, along with Muliana. Their replacements are Stephen Donald?! and Hosea Gear. I’ve got no problems with Gear being there, he was unlucky not to be there from the start but Donald is a different story. Let’s just say that I am not a big fan.
My feeling on Wales v NZ is not based on anything that I’ve seen on the field in this world cup. It’s purely based on the fact that Wales haven’t beaten NZ since 1953. I think it’s a psychological thing rather than a rugby thing. That said, they are playing extremely well and NZ are without Carter, so they have a better chance than would have otherwise have been the case. I just think that NZ will be able to grind it out up front. NZ’s defence is pretty decent too, so Wales will be up against it in terms of scoring tries.
Weirdly, I don’t feel the same about Oz. I still think Quade Cooper can be got and I think the respective packs match up better than Wales and NZ - where I suspect NZ will win the breakdown. But I think Oz can beat NZ and indeed did in the Tri Nations decider. Any of these three can win it. I really have discounted France (to be honest, the worst thing that could happen to them is winning this - as they really need to get rid of their coach in order to move on as a team - in many respects, I think that they were fortunate to draw England in the QF).
Perhaps England were fortunate to draw France for the same reason? But as mentioned earlier in the thread, with the RFU in disarray they likely won’t be able to capitalise on this. I can’t see Johnno jumping until he is pushed.
Note that in sport in general, I am dead against sacking the coach after a poor tournament result/period of losses. But in this case I make an exception because I am convinced we can do better with a different style of play. However, I must admit that I am not knowledgable enough to suggest a plausible replacement. Rob Andrew maybe - is he any good?
Re: England being fortunate to draw France: well, quite.
I think that there are coaches in the English game that are worth a look. I’ve mentioned Toby Booth and Jim Mallinder before (Booth has generated a pretty attacking team at London Irish and Mallinder has worked with the England Saxons before, also generating a team that wants to throw the ball around a bit). Cockerill at Leicester is probably the wrong personality (and may not change enough of the back room staff to allow real change). It’s too soon for Andy Farrell - 1st team coach at Saracens. Rob Baxter from Exeter would be an interesting choice (he’s managed to have great success with a pretty unfancied team and his tactical approach when he knows he is outgunned is pretty decent) but perhaps too left field. I keep coming back to mallinder and Booth - they seem like the front runners.
Andrew - arguably - is the luckiest man in rugby. It’s a mystery how he is still employed by the RFU. He has had something like 4 different roles in two years - itself an indication of the disfunctionality of the governing body - and should probably be one of the guys who is culled. It looks like there is going to be some more internecine squabbling at the RFU before the year is out. It’s a mystery how we are going to resolve the issues with the national team, when it appears that there is no real structure/personnel in place for an actual review of the situation.
Anyway, long story short, I’m not holding my breath for change soon. The RFU have cocked up, plus ca change, and it will all likely need to be sorted out before something happens. I can see us going into the 6N with a similar coaching set up to that which we currently have - with change happening at the end of the season.
Well, whoever wins it will be good for the game because in International Rugby when someone stays down after a big hit it’s because they really need to stay down - unlike your typical professional soccer player who takes more dives than Greg Louganis.
Just once, just once, I’d like to see David Beckham run it up as a centre three quarter after a scrum feed. I so would pay good money to see how that would end up.
True, but the stupid thing is, weeping like a slapped brat is not an inherent character flaw in the individual footballer. Had someone like Beckham been playing rugby instead of football he would not behave in the stereotypical footballer way.
(to be fair, he himself is very far down the list of cry-babies and he seems like a very decent human being)
The problem is with the sport itself, what behaviours does it reward and which does it punish? In order to change Football needs an injection of hard, hard refereeing with that being backed up properly by the FA and other controlling bodies.
Half a season of “by the book” strict reffing and a few game cancellations because of too many sendings off and the problem is solved. Of course no-one has the guts to do it.
But hey! that is most definitely another thread, perhaps one for the pit when the current sporting highlight is over and done with.
Roll on the weekend, I’m picking a Wales - Wallabies final.
I appreciate that this is off topic but I agree with this - not only that, there is a working professional example of it succeeding.
The NBA, at the start of their last season, said that they would give technical fouls on any player who questioned the decisions of the refs. The first few games, everyone was up in arms - this is ruining the game, too many players are fouling out, etc. The NBA stuck to their guns - after 3 weeks, behaviour had changed completely. No more back talking to refs - everyone knew they couldn’t get away with it.
It takes a strong governing body, willing to back the refs to get it done. No chance in football then.
Q…E…bloody…D
Ohmigod I hope Wales win this bloody thing. My highly loyal/optimistic Welsh girlfriend has £10 on an 80-1 bet on it which even the bookie tried to persuade her against before the tournament started. They’re now 5-1.
COME ON WALES!
With a little judicious hedging you can come out ahead. Bet on France in the next game, staking enough to win back your tenner plus some profit; if Wales win, you can bet on the other team in the final to cover your losses so far plus some profit; if Wales win the final anyway, you collect her £800 minus what you lost on the other two bets. The numerical answer is left as an exercise for the student, depending on the odds. 
Except if it’s a Wales All Blacks final the All Blacks won’t be paying more than $1.20 (not hjaving lost to Wales since 1953 and all that). So your final bet wioll have to be pretty large.
My ever optimistic Welsh mate stuck £60 on them at 100-1 at the start. He’s letting it ride.
Reviewing this thread, I’d like to put one thing on record given a discussion on page 1 or 2.
If NZ lose this weekend or next weekend, it is not a choke. It is not anywhere near a choke. McCaw and Carter are their two most important players - both quality and leadership wise. McCaw is carrying an injury. Carter is out. Take the two best players off any side in the world and plug in their replacements and they will struggle.
So please, if the worst happens, let’s not hear anything about a choke. The bloody media will do that job for us - and it should be ignored.
NZ to win - close but enough.
Wales to win - by more than a converted try.
Roll on the weekend.
I’d agree Cumbrian. Losing to any team in the latter stages of a knockout competition cannot ever really be considered a choke. One-offs are notorious for throwing up underdog victories. Therein lies a element of unfairness, but also that little frisson of expectation and excitement, anything is possible.
And NZ were always at rather inflated odds I reckon and the gap between them and the rest is not so large as the home media would have you believe. They may well edge it over Australia 3 times out of 5 on current form but a defeat would not be a shock.
Although, of course…should they lose…I may accidentally use the “c” word in the presence of Kiwis. How can I not?
Yeah, choke or not (and I agree it would not really be one), it will still be funny to see them fail to win. Well, once you’ve been knocked out, schadenfreude becomes the best you can hope for :).
That said, I am backing the remaining home nation to win, and they seem to have a reasonable shout.