Unfortunately, you are both on the same side of the draw at the minute, so this is unlikely (though not impossible if Italy can turn Ireland over this weekend). Currently, you are slated to meet in the semis (if Aus can do SA in the current likely QF).
Bewdiful … of course you could always add an extra bit of intrigue with the All Blacks tight five all getting a stomach bug from a late night snack on dodgy lamb kebabs.
This is a bit funny- French jockeys doing the haka at Union.
Is it just me or is this preamble getting on anyone else’s nerves as well?
The rugby world cup is suffering from a crippling expansion in the same way that the Footy and Cricket tournaments do.
TV money suggests that more and bigger is better. It isn’t. You just dilute what was meaningful in the first place.
Yes the group matches throw up an occasional upset but that gets lost amongst the drubbings and the dross. The tournament ends up taking forever and I get to kick my heels for more than three weeks to get to the business end.
I suggest that the top 8 ranked teams play a feeder tournament, top two go through to the world cup proper.
Then two groups of 5, round-robin, top two of each through to the semi’s.
A maximum of 6 games to play, done in 4-5 weeks flat.
The bottom team in each group have to play in the qualifying tournament next time round.
I’d suggest that a higher percentage of games would be meaningful, both in the qualifier and the main tournament.
And wouldn’t a smaller and quicker tournament mean it becomes easier and cheaper to take it elsewhere? I thought it a great shame that Japan didn’t
get awarded this world cup.
And one more thing I’ve never had a decent explanation for. Why are the all blacks always allowed to perform their Haka last thing before kick-off. It is obviously a special concession made for them for some reason but buggered if I know why. I may be a chorus of one here but I’d ban it, or allow a similar period for a motivational display by the other team. Order to be decided by coin toss. That would be fair yes?
Well it’s Rugby so you can almost guarantee that the result will be decided by poor refereeing.
Of course I meant to say that the 8 top ranked teams go to the world cup automatically, the rest play a feeder tournament.
Novelty Bobble, I couldn’t agree more with most of your post (not quite sure I understand your alternative format but I agree the event could be shortened), particularly the last paragraph. The haka certainly has it’s place as an important part of New Zealand’s cultural heritage, but that place is not the rugby field. And I found the uproar when Wales turned their backs on it a few years ago unbelievable. I’m not too worked up about what teams do before games, but essentially forcing the opposition to watch it is ridiculous. Disrespectful my arse - Wales were just getting on with their own preparation. It’s pathetic.
ETA: I was referring to post #124, of course. And your amendment to the format makes a lot more sense!
…you’ve never heard Waltzing Matilda played in Aussie stadiums after the Haka is performed? you’ve never seen Samoa play? Fiji? Tonga? There is no special dispensation just for the All Blacks. Cite
Heh- like Waltzing Matilda is as daunting as the Haka? Waltzing Matilda is like a ballad.
I think the haka gives a bit of colour- I tell you, if I was facing that All Black front row after the haka I would beat Usain Bolt off the ground.
… 
I think the all-blacks do consider themselves rather more important than the game itself and they use controversy over the Haka as a motivational tool. I can’t blame them, but I don’t see why it should be indulged to the extent it is. To me, it seems rather childish.
Each team should get the national anthem, then start playing. If they want to do the Haka they can do it during their warm up or, even better, after kick-off. 
…in 2006 the All Blacks peformed the Haka in the dressing room and guess what? That was not a popular move. The All Blacks make money and part of that appeal, like it or not, is the Haka. And am I correct that you also want to ban the Samoan, Fijian and Tongan Haka’s as well?
Your used to seeing Te Rauparaha’s Haka and Kapa o Pango, but almost every school and major organisation has their own.
Here is my old college’s Haka:
And here is the police:
And here is the army:
And finally a couple of emotional tributes:
For Morrie Stanley
…and for Sir Howard Morrison
The Haka is an important part of our culture: its not just an All Blacks thing and its not “childish.” There is nothing stopping any other rugby playing nation doing “their own thing” as the other Pacific Islands have shown. So you can’t say that this is just a case of special treatment for the All Blacks.
No I don’t think banning it is necessary. They could be free to do it during their warm up at any time. Correct me if I’m wrong but those teams that do the Haka want to do it last thing before KO if possible. I don’t think that should be allowed.
I should clarify. I don’t mean that the Haka itself is childish, more the amount of indulgence shown brings to mind dummies being spat and toys being ejected from prams.
ETA - witness the Wales incident and various others over the years.
Personally I strongly disagree with all of Novelty Bobble’s points. Taking each in turn:
The tournament is too long
43 days every four years isn’t too long in my opinion. Hell it’s only about a week longer than a Lion’s tour. (2009 lions tour first game 30 May, last game 4 July = 35 days). Forcing teams to play two games a week is a terrible idea, witness the complaints from the teams who have had to play after only four days break this time around. Your proposed format won;t help at all in this regard anyway. 5 teams in the round robin means at least 4 weeks, preferably 5 for the round robin, then semis 1 week and final the next a total of 7 weeks (42 days), which we already have with quarters thrown in.
Drop the weak teams
Yes the Namibia’s of this tournament have had a tough time (but they’re doing better than in the past no three digit scores thus far) but can you really say a tournament consisting of the Tri-Nations, Six Nations and Argentina year in and year out could properly be called a world cup? For most of the other nations this is the only time they ever get to face the big nations and test themselves against the best, and they love it. Every team in this world cup, even Namibia has led a match at some point during their pool games. And if the improvement of the little nations continues as it has I think we’ll see even more of that in the future. Oh and the IRB won’t drop nations if it means missing out on TV revenue from the likes of the US and Japan.
A smaller tournament would be more easily played elsewhere
Why? You don’t need to play every game in a different stadium, in fact I wouldn’t mind seeing a tournament played in only four stadiums, one for each pool. Taking out stadium construction costs the RWC isn’t hugely expensive to run. I suspect the key reason why the RWC hasn’t gone to a non-traditional rugby nation yet is that the IRB is loathe to put on their showcase in front of empty stands.
As for the haka issue why should a century-old tradition be abandoned? It’s become part of the culture of rugby. Hell James Joyce even put one in *Finnegan’s Wake * after seeing the All Blacks play France in 1924. And as has been pointed out other Pacific Island nations have their own equivalents. As for dummy spitting, IMHO that’s pretty much always a media beat up.
On to this weekend’s games. Going into the final set of pool games only one quarterfinalist has been decided, the other seven are (mathmatically at least) still up for grabs.
Tonight sees Samoa v South Africa. A win or draw for South Africa will guarantee them first place in pool D, anything less and they should still qualify second. Samoa’s only chance to progress is to win (and preferably score 4 tries in the process). I think Samoa’s frantic attempts to score tries will make for an entertaining game, until South Africa’s defence and Steyn’s kicking chokes the life out of them. South Africa to win 37-23.
Three games on Saturday (ordered by pool). France v Tonga is somewhat similar to tonight’s game, Tonga’s only hope is to score 4 tries and beat the French by more than 7. That’s just not going to happen (although it would be great if it did). France to win 43-17.
England v Scotland should be the game of the night. I’d love to see the Scots win and deny England a bonus point to set up the three way tie but I fear England is too strong for the Scots and will take the game 27-13 and top the group.
Australia v Russia must surely be a formality and I expect the Aussies to get their bonus point with a scoreline of around 53-11.
The four games on Sunday wrap up the pool stages;
New Zealand v Canada will be a try-fest. I’m guessing 53-7 with Guildford and Dagg getting a brace each.
Argentina v Georgia; reinvigorated after their victory against Romania Georgia will do surprisingly well and stay in touch with Argentina, finally going down 27-17, with the Pumas not getting 4 tries (I really, really want to see three teams finish on 14 points here).
Ireland v Italy is an interesting one. I think the Italians just might do it, and upset Ireland 24-20. Allowing Aussie to top the group and Italy to go through ahead of Ireland thanks to winning their fixture.
Fiji v Wales: in the OP I picked Fiji to win this one but Wales have impressed and I think the Springboks broke the Fijians spirit two weeks ago. Wales to win at a canter, 43-17.
I wasn’t fixating on the total length of the tournament as such. It is possible for it to remain the current length and yet still generate excitement all the way (as the six nations does). My concern was more that the initial phase, whether it were 2 weeks or 4 just doesn’t generate enough entertainment, it contains too much filler.
And that is linked to…
Well, every four years but… Yes, absolutely yes. As long as we have spaces mandated for the up and coming teams (and an effective relegation for those established teams on a slump). A feeder tournament provides exactly that opportunity and would be great spectacle in itself and a money spinner for the hosting nations.
I’m sure it is a great experience for them but does coming here and getting walloped every four years actually help them develop? Or would a more equal competition with an attainable prize and world cup experience on merit be better all round?
Unfortunately money talks too loudly, often at the expense of the best sporting spectacle. Look at the amount of tedium we now have during group stages of the
Champions league and European/World cups. “Making more money” does not mean a better sporting experience overall.
The money does matter of course to certain extent though, for the good of the sport it needs to be shared and channelled to the developing nations. I think with a concentrated field of teams you would end up with more “big” games that generate higher revenue. This can be diverted where it needs to go and no-one need lose out.
Fewer teams mean less stress on pitches when fewer stadia are used. One per pool may be pushing it. But two for each of two pools would be doable.
As for empty stands…would they be empty if most of the games were big names?
I was hasty in saying I would ban it. I wouldn’t really. As I’ve since clarified any team should be allowed to do whatever they want to during their warm up period.
But in order to prevent any team trying to gain a motivational benefit. The period before the KO should be anthems, hand-shake and KO.
That would be a suitable compromise don’t you think? Then the opposition would be under no obligation (because of perceived cultural insensitivity) to react or respond. Thus childish squabbles are averted.
Well that’s fair enough I suppose, but I still think dropping to ten teams is too much, I’d prefer four pools of four, taking away the uneven numbers of teams in each pool problem. And there is a qualification process at the moment, but it’s regionally based rather than a world wide tournament.
As to the money I agree completely; it’s too powerful. We saw a good example of that this week with a Samoan player fined $10,000 for wearing a branded mouthguard while the English team gets a slap on the wrist for switching balls when kicking conversions (as an aside how the hell can that happen, what’s the point of all the officials on the touchline if they can’t pick up something so blatent?). This illustrates to me that the IRB is more concerned with keeping their sponsors sweet than what actually goes on in the game.
In another example of utter IRB ineptitude who’s brilliant idea was it to appoint a Welsh referee to officiate in last night’s crucial game between Wales’ two main rivals in pool play? While I’m not saying the referee was actually biased, it certainly looks bad.
I have to constantly remind myself not to underestimate the ability of world sporting bodies to shoot themselves in the foot.
I was mortified by the English ball-switching, but I think your Samoan mouth-guard incident is even worse.
As for the finer points of the tournament set-up? well, we may disagree on some of the finer detail but I guarantee that you and I plus a handful of others in this thread could come to a workable compromise over beer and a curry. Less time than it takes the IRB members to call for their Bentley.
ETA - and hurrah! we are at the business end now. England v Scotland tomorrow. I predict much rain, much handling errors, much sound and fury with 4 points in it at the end. England to edge it.
Samoa held South Africa down to an 8-13 victory, meaning I owe the kid a cup of tea above and beyond our usual cups of tea. Samoa could have taken it with cleaner passes but there were handling errors on both sides.
A rough game with too much push and shove outside the game play for my taste.
It really is staggering isn’t it? Is any international governing body of any sport at all competent and not corrupt? I think it will only get worse when sevens becomes an Olympic sport and all the IOC slime balls get their sticky fingers involved.
I haven’t seen the forecast for Auckland tonight, but I think you might be right about the rain. I’m just hoping the weather holds for Sunday’s All Blacks game so I don’t get drenched at the caketin.
Oh and I told you so maggenpye…